Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street right to you on main street.

Frank Curzio: What’s going out there? It’s September 2nd. I’m Frank Curzio, host of the Wall Street Unplugged podcast, where I break down the headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. Everyone is conditioned a certain way. I’m talking about all people, all of us. We’re all programmed to believe what we read, who we listen to, who we follow. And this conditioning happens at a very early age. I remember my parents told me things that, if you crack your knuckles, it’s going to lead to arthritis.

Frank Curzio: Swelling gum takes seven years to digest. If you crush your eyes, they get stuck that way. I mean, we all have some of these things that we remember, and sometimes, we believe it so much that we pass it on to our own kids before we find out that a lot of this is not true. But it’s been told to us so many times, over and over and over again, to the point where you just start believing it. We are conditioned a certain way, trained to think a certain way. It’s incredibly difficult to change.

Frank Curzio: It’s just the way we’re built. We don’t like that. We like to believe what we want to believe. We don’t like change. Most people don’t like change, it’s very difficult. Doing something that you don’t believe in, or listening to someone that you never liked is not easy. In the investment world, people like this are called permabears or permabulls. It simply means that you’re either super bearish or bullish no matter what the data tells you. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t even matter if things change.

Frank Curzio: That’s just the way you are. You may say, “Frank, that sounds a little crazy.” It’s not. If you want, go back, Google. We all have Google. Go back to March, the March lows this year, and look at the headlines. Then go back to the March lows in 2009, credit crisis. Then go back almost every single crash, go further and further. If you look at permabears, they don’t turn bullish during these times when the market crashes, they never do. They think it’s going to get even worse.

Frank Curzio: They pound the table on their thesis. They become even more bearish at the bottom. That’s the way they’re programmed. If you go to politics, try changing the mind of someone that’s far left or far right, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what data is presented to them. Even if they see it with their own eyes through a video, they don’t care. Their agenda is their agenda. They’re conditioned to think one way and nobody will ever, ever change their mind.

Frank Curzio: Now, why am I bringing this up? Because I read a post from someone I respect, that’s incredibly smart. This is recent, it’s just a few days ago. The person actually worked with the Fed, which means the job was to analyze data probably 10 hours a day and come up with unbiased conclusions, based on the data. That’s our so called Fed, what they’re supposed to do. Recently, this person posted something about COVID, and this person actually retweeted it. It says, how it’s crazy that people still think COVID is like a bad cold.

Frank Curzio: I was surprised by that post. If it’s in February and into March, I would have agreed. If you listen to this podcast, you know I’ve been covering this since January well before almost anyone else out there in Wall Street, extensively. I tell you to go to John Hopkins website before I even knew it existed, now it’s a standard. It’s amazing, talking to doctors, interviewing people in other countries that are on quarantine. I mean, how crazy this is and how it’s going to spread rapidly.

Frank Curzio: But in February and March, yeah I agree with this, COVID is far more dangerous than a flu or bad colds. You go into June, pretty much, I thought the same thing. But then something interesting happened, the data started to change. We started learning more about this disease, who it attacks, how kids barely have any symptoms, how more than 90% of these COVID deaths come from people who are older than 65. Because the data changed significantly because the first indication, all this data coming in and COVID killing people was in New York City.

Frank Curzio: But it was someone’s bright idea to put… Again, nobody really knew about the disease. I just hate that no one’s taken responsibility for it. It’s politically, I understand it. They decide to put people who are infected with COVID in nursing homes, which resulted in the worst thing you could possibly do, tons of deaths to the fact we’re sending ships along the coastline with extra hospitals that we wind up never using. I’m not mocking that decision, because looking at the data at the beginning, all we see is a virus that’s spreading and killing people like crazy.

Frank Curzio: It’s scary as hell. It’s killed 8% of the people, 8% of the people that get it. But now the data is changing. We’re learning more about this disease. Last week, one of the biggest stats I’ve seen, which is a game changer, comes from the CDC. I hate that both parties are using it as a political tool. It’s an election year, and things have… In my lifetime, never been this crazy on a political front, I’ve never seen. Riots, people dying in the streets crazy, just lies everywhere. I’ve never seen it like this.

Frank Curzio: Maybe it’s just me. But forget about politics for just a minute. I know we all have strong opinions on it but just forget about it, because this information is not just vital for the economy, for health of the entire population, but it’s also extremely relevant to investors. The CDC came out and said this, of the approximately 180,000 deaths, COVID deaths, less than 10,000 died from COVID by itself. Which amounts to about 6% of the people who died just from COVID.

Frank Curzio: Now, if you’re on the left and you already want to shut this off, hear me out. This is not going to be political, I promise. Promise. In that 6% of people who died just from COVID, the rest, a vast majority had an average 2.6 serious additional diseases. With the addition, in most cases, of extreme advanced age. Again, I see both sides using these stories to benefit their own agendas. Twitter even banned this tweet after Trump reposted it, even though it’s from the CDC, so I’m not sure why.

Frank Curzio: It is a political, I actually I do know why. But this data is extremely relevant. When I look at it, from an unbiased filter, here’s what I come up with. We’re still talking about 180,000 Americans who died, and COVID did cause these deaths. In other words, if COVID did not exist, sure, many of these people may have died from their underlying conditions but COVID accelerated this process. I agree with Dr. Fauci, who was asked this about 50 times, but it was on Good Morning America.

Frank Curzio: He responded to one of their questions. He said, “Look, there are 180,000 plus deaths. These are real deaths from COVID-19. Let there not be any confusion about that.” I’m quoting him, and he’s right. With that said, COVID is not a disease we all have to fear. It’s like a cold in terms of symptoms if you’re under 50 years old. If you’re under 15 years old, which I mentioned last week, the death rate of kids under 15 that died from COVID from February 1st to August 15th, on the CDC website, is 0.04%.

Frank Curzio: Remember that number, because the death rate of kids under 15 that died from the flu, which is in the same chart, over the same timeframe, is 1.6%. That’s a massive difference. Both risks are very low but, there’s a greater chance if you catch the flu of dying if you’re under 15 years old than COVID. That’s from the CDC website. These are facts. The data is changing. As of today, 90% of all deaths from COVID in the US come from people who are over 65 years old, so we need to protect our elders. We know this now.

Frank Curzio: Have you ever walked into a store and there’s no masks? Sometimes, not often. I mean, some people are against it. But for me in Florida who has been basically open since July, has done a great job. Death rate is down tremendously. Yeah, cases spiked but everything is cool. You’re not seeing death rate go up. You’re seeing businesses open, practice social distancing. But you’re still seeing people wear masks, most of us. We need to continue to do that. We need to be conscious of this, protecting our elders, protecting people in a danger zone, especially if they have underlying conditions.

Frank Curzio: We’re learning that from the data, where COVID alone only killed 6% of these people, alone. This is why they may fast track a vaccine, which a lot of people don’t agree with and I don’t agree with, and I don’t think anybody under 40 years old. I should say anyone under 30 years old should think of taking this vaccine, if it’s available by the end of this year. Don’t even think about it, this is a bad call. Why risk that? Why risk it? But they want to fast track the vaccine for people who are over 65 that are facing death.

Frank Curzio: So I get it. People are going to tell you, “You’re going to fast track a vaccine, what happens if it doesn’t work or what are the risks?” How do you fast track that, especially since the quickest we brought a vaccine to market was four years, 1967 or way back then. Granted we have a lot more money going into our healthcare companies to produce this, the government’s supporting it. A lot of these companies are working together partnering with other companies, it’s amazing, to try to get a vaccine. But the vaccine is extremely important for the people in the danger zone.

Frank Curzio: I could see the fast tracking even though I don’t agree with it but, if you have an underlying condition and you get COVID, there’s a strong chance that you’re going to be in trouble, then I’d rather try a vaccine than not try anything. Again, talking about a certain age group. Outside of this demographic, we need to open everything up across the United States, every restaurant, every movie theater, every gym, every theme park, every city. Forget politics, forget about the election. This is an easy choice based on the data, the science, based on the massive risks of comparing it, where you’re keeping the economy closed.

Frank Curzio: You see the latest studies of depression and suicides. Someone that’s tracking this data and track it state by state, and not just about COVID and deaths, the percentage rates but the reopening of businesses. Doing this since January. It’s finally nice to see that the states are starting to agree. You see on TV how people are worried they’re just crazy and trying to scare the hell out of you. Making fun of Pelosi because everything’s closed and no salons are opening, then she went to a salon with no mask on and everybody…

Frank Curzio: It’s the same thing with Chris Christie, remember when he closed the beach? “You can’t go to the beach.” Then he took his family to the beach, that crashed his career by the way. It might already been a downfall. But it’s just funny how some people are saying some things and yet, our politicians, government, not allowing us to do things yet they’re doing it themselves. But if you’re looking at say one part, these casual dining restaurants, this is a great analysis from Goldman Sachs. 91% of casual dining restaurants are open, that’s up from 87% last week.

Frank Curzio: And of those, 52% are allowing indoor dining. Most of it’s at 25% capacity, it’s getting bigger and bigger depending on what state, but at least they’re opening because they’re looking at the data. California has played a reopen casual dining, they said August 31st which makes sense. They pulled back a bit as infections started to increase, but nice to see California opening back up. Not everything is positive, but California I’m going to explain in a minute. New Jersey said they’re going to reopen dining rooms for the first time since March. It’s going to take place on September 4th, and they’re going to start at 25% capacity.

Frank Curzio: Okay. Which makes sense, you start slow, but nice to see them starting these reopenings. Anchorage, Miami opened up a 50% capacity. Florida, which I just mentioned, where I live and my family just ate at a LongHorn, it was about 50% capacity, everyone wearing masks until they were seated. And we were spaced out for social distancing. Waiters, waitresses, everybody who worked there wearing masks, felt totally comfortable, fine. And I told you about two months ago, we went to a waterpark with my kids. It was about 20% capacity. Everyone practicing social distancing, everyone getting their temperature taken before they went in. It was great and fine, everything was cool. We were all following the rules.

Frank Curzio: But then we look at the restaurant, Mecca. The biggest and best of them all, New York City, where Governor Cuomo, who really has his head up his ass, I can’t say it better than that. But he said that New York City is not ready for indoor dining. He’s keeping everything closed. He’s the guy that said, “We’re going to follow science, we got to follow science.” He’s maintaining that directive, that people coming into New York City, and I think it’s like 10 States, but still be quarantined for 14 days. That’s funny when you think about it because the CDC said, and this is over a week ago, that 14 day quarantines from travel, both domestic and international, are no longer in the United States.

Frank Curzio: But Cuomo knows more than the CDC now. And he says that Trump is in bed with them, even though Trump destroyed them completely for the whole disaster with China and the World Health Organization and how they came back from China saying that, you got nothing to worry about. Now all of a sudden they like Trump, really? Is that what you’re saying? That they’re in bed together. But I guess Cuomo doesn’t want to follow science, and what a disaster it’s creating. Look at New York City right now. We’ll rant about it again, I did that already.

Frank Curzio: It’s just incredible to see the amount of people moving out. What evidence do you need? The massive increase in homicides. Again, de Blasio, Cuomo, all they want to do is defund the police, increase tax, did you see that? They just announced it, they want to increase taxes on the rich. It’s a pretty good way to get them back into the city. That makes a lot of sense, guys. Let’s just keep every f’ing store closed forever. That’s what they want. Like I said, last week, they’re not doing this out of stupidity or they don’t know any better, this is being done intentionally.

Frank Curzio: You’ve seen all the other cities open up, Democrat or Republican, they’re starting to open up. Why isn’t New York City opening up? And I know you went through one of the toughest periods compared to any other state. The amount of deaths, if you were a country, would equal fourth largest in country and you’re just a state, I get it. But you got to follow the data, you got to be willing to change. Because right now they’re intentionally destroying the greatest city in the world, there’s no denying that. I don’t care what side you’re on.

Frank Curzio: Now outside in New York City, theaters are opening up about 1,600 which is 25% across the country. AMC said 70% of their theaters are open or going to be open by this week. But I want to get back to California real quick. So California was about to let Disney open parks. Now in Florida, Disney’s parks are in Florida as well, and they opened in July, I think it’s 25% capacity. I know a lot of people that went they said, “It’s great. It’s not as crowded.” Everybody’s okay, nobody came back and died. But California has this crazy tier system, which is based on infections not deaths, just infections. And it’s crazy to where this is public information go, Google it or whatever.

Frank Curzio: California tier system, to where if one in seven people test positive for COVID out of 100,000 in a county, the non-essential indoor business need to remain closed. Non-essential is gyms, hair salons, restaurants, most of the stores, and they call this tier widespread. That’s what it’s called. Now, you need less than 1%, again it’s different tiers, let’s go to the other side of it. You need less than one new COVID cases per 100,000. So zero case, right? Less than one. They actually put less than one new COVID case per 100,000 per county, right? They call this tier minimal. So if you have that, which is no cases, your indoor businesses can open with modifications.

Frank Curzio: So translation, if you have zero cases of infections being reported per 100,000 at a county, you can open but only with modifications, why in the hell would you have modifications if nobody’s freaking infected? It’s insane. I’m not telling you to open up at 100%, but 70, 75%. If you have no infection, out of 100,000 people in a county, you still going to have modifications? Is it going to be 25%, 30%, 40%? It’s almost telling you that once this goes away, we’re never going to open up at more than 75% again, and that could happen. I’m hoping it doesn’t. Because we’re learning more about this disease. I’m throwing a lot of stats at you, and I’m always aware of that because I want to make it so you’re not listening to a bunch of numbers and you’re saying, “Oh, this is crazy.” You need to understand this. Because it’s the biggest point and a lot of you listen to this as investors and want new ideas.

Frank Curzio: But from an investment standpoint, I said this three weeks ago, COVID risk is going to continue to die down. More and more people, they’re seeing the stats. They’re seeing thousands of athletes contract COVID, nobody dying. They’re seeing some of their friends catch it now. I have a couple friends who had it. The ones with no underlying conditions and were in the 65 years old get sick for about 10 days and then they’re hanging out again. We might have a couple of cases where they say lungs and this few, but for the majority we’re talking about the data that’s available.

Frank Curzio: I probably know about 15 people that had it and nobody told me that they had any side effects or its continued effects from the disease after they no longer have it, I haven’t heard it. Are there a few? Yeah, there’s got to be a couple. But you need to know the whole picture, the whole story. And of course, we must continue social distancing. I’m not saying open everything up, no more masks, hey, everything’s fine, no. We must protect the people in a danger zone. Even with schools reopening it’s up to the parents to send their kids back not up to the government, since every situation is different.

Frank Curzio: Maybe you have elders in your house, maybe you have someone with an underlying respiratory condition and you don’t want your kid contracting it and coming home because you know chances are very, very, very, very 99.8% that if your kid contracts it they’re going to be okay if they have no underlying conditions. It’s just a bad cold, but still, if they contract it and give it to someone who’s at risk, it could be a lot of trouble. Even teachers, I know one teacher that has an underlying health condition that’s not going back and doing online. That’s understandable.

Frank Curzio: It’s not everyone, all your kids. You should never tell parents, “Your kids have to go back to school,” but they should have the option because of the data, not the government. They should be closing schools like crazy. You see these outbreaks in North Carolina, take these kids temperatures. And by the way, Alabama, they came out with a story now about over 1,000 people have been infected through three schools in Alabama. And you keep reading that story, zero of those people were even hospitalized. Zero, they’re not going to tell you that. They have to scare the shit out of you, right? That’s what media does, that’s why you watch it. So you could tell your friends, “Holy shit, see the Alabama going back to school, everyone’s getting it.” They don’t want to tell you that there was no hospitalizations. They don’t want to say that.

Frank Curzio: But we need to keep people protected who are at risk, which is not a major part of the population, especially the working population. But almost every piece of economic data is getting stronger and stronger. It’s not even a monthly basis on a weekly basis. Look at the home prices, surging, new home sales through the roof. Manufacturing surging where the ISM index for August posted its highest ratings since January, 2019. And it was due to a surge in new orders.

Frank Curzio: Personal income and spending were better than expected. I’m not a cheerleader here, I’m looking at the data. So from an investor’s point of view, I know it’s difficult when you’re watching these Zooms go crazy. By the way, those numbers were absolutely insane. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a company… Man, it’s just incredible how fast that they’re growing I’ve never seen a company grow that fast I think in 25 years, in terms of where they are in revenue in just from last year, it’s just incredible.

Frank Curzio: But you’re watching the Apples, the Teslas rocket higher almost alongside most digital stocks. But start positioning yourself in the names that have been most impacted from COVID, because things are going to get better and better. The airlines, hotels, casinos, cruise lines doing a lot of research on these industries over the past few weeks. In Curzio Venture Opportunities, I recommended three companies within these sectors. Almost everyone is seeing huge bookings for 2021, which is important. Meaning once COVID ends, and it’s going to end, it’s going to get better, we’re going to get a vaccine, probably, people will feel more comfortable, they’re going to want to get out of the house and go crazy. Everybody’s done with this.

Frank Curzio: It’s one thing, if you’re seeing a neighbor die, you’re not seeing people die. You saw most of these deaths take place at the beginning. The death rate now is below 3%, like 2.9 going lower and lower on a weekly basis. People are dying to get out, travel, go on vacation. Instead of buying these Zooms at 250 times forward earnings, and it is trading at that right now, 250 times forward earnings. And again, their numbers were just insane in terms of sales and earnings. But instead of buying these high flyers that are training evaluations that, I mean, I follow the analyst.

Frank Curzio: These analysts are having trouble explaining, they’re starting to remove their target price because they’re just like, “We don’t know how high these things could go,” which is pretty scary when you think about it. Even the most bullish analysts, that’s why you’re seeing when Netflix target gets raised it’s to the street high. And it’s only a little bit higher than where the price is currently trading. Same with Tesla, it’s a little bit higher than where the price is currently trading. But instead of buying these crazy names, start getting exposure to those sectors.

Frank Curzio: Those airlines, hotels, casinos, cruise lines, most of those still down considerably from their highs and their numbers are only going to get better and better. Plus, this is very important, they’re some of the largest employers in the United States. So you know, the government’s going to support these names if this lasts a little bit longer, or if people still feel like, yeah, after Q1 next year that I still really don’t want to fly too much. I don’t know if I want to travel, the government’s right there. They’re going to back up these names, which does what? It protects you, right? It lowers your risk. They’re not going to let Delta and Southwest, MGM, go under, they won’t.

Frank Curzio: And they’re not even near that. These companies have taken out debt, have done a great job. Those companies that I mentioned, not all of them, you’re seeing really, really strong bookings in 2021. Let’s see, because maybe they push those out even further depending on how bad COVID is. But they have enough cash to withstand at least 12 months, some of them 18 months of 25% capacity and they’re at that right now. But I think we all agree, it’s going to get better, it’s going to get busier. But I’ve known a couple people that went to Vegas and they said it was pretty crowded and people are going and it’s getting busier and busier.

Frank Curzio: That all this government spending, it’s not going to stop anytime soon. That gap between Main Street and Wall Street’s going to continue, which is going to force the Fed’s hand to continue to throw money at this market. Keep interest rates low forever. Start doing things like, oh, that 2% inflation… We’re not going to focus on that right now. No, no, no, we’re not looking at that. They have to keep rates low. Which means what? This bull market is not going to slow down, it’s not. Not only will these sectors I just mentioned going to benefit from these catalysts, especially more government spending. But the one sector to own right now, you guys know I’ve been pitching this for over 12 months.

Frank Curzio: And pounding the table February, March, April even in my newsletters. It’s obvious and it’s gold or particular gold stocks. Not just gold the commodity but gold stocks. So a nice rise, a lot of junior minors, a little bit of a pullback, consolidation, now you’re seeing gold iron high. It’s going to continue to go higher. The tailwinds for this industry have never been greater. Everything’s coming together and this is a great segue for today’s interview. It’s a first time guest, who is arguably one of the best minds in the entire resource industry yet you probably never heard of him. He’s not mentioned with the elites like Ross Beaty, Pierre Lassonde, Rick Rule, Lukas Lundin even though some of those guys invested in his ventures. So he’s not really mentioned.

Frank Curzio: But the best of the best of the industry, but his track record is now in line with these guys. You could argue that it’s better than theirs over the past three decades he’s been doing this, and his name is Steven Dean. Steven has a history of buying undervalued gold assets and selling them to companies for massive, massive gains making his investors a lot of money. His last venture, which was Atlantic Gold Corp, he sold for over $800 million for 1100% plus gains. Now here’s the thing, he sold this asset in May, 2019. That’s when the bid came and he bought this project in 2014. Think of that timeframe, it’s a four and a half year timeframe of how bad the gold industry was over that time. May, 2019, we didn’t really see. We started seeing it come back, not to the point it is now.

Frank Curzio: But from 2014, it was horrible over that time period. But yet he was able to build this project on time, on budget and get acquired during a period when gold was mostly in a downtrend. A few deals, few deals, there wasn’t a lot of M&A taking place. He was also the former president of Teck Resources, guys, that’s one of the largest company in Canada it ranks number two now behind Barrick to present. And this year, 2020, recipient of the prestigious Viola R. MacMillan Award from the PDAC. So it’s given to individuals demonstrating leadership and management and financing for the exploration development of mineral resources, pretty big deal. It’s an honor to have Steven on today’s show since he’s not a guy that does a lot of these.

Frank Curzio: You don’t seem him talking about his company at many conferences because he’s more of a show me guy and less of a promoter, which is refreshing to see in this industry to be honest with you. Steven has a new venture and it’s one of the best junior miners I’ve researched in terms of having a world-class asset, being in the right place, right geography, permits, more insider ownership than I’ve seen, I think on almost any junior miner. Exceptional management team, super low cost asset to develop and he’s trading one of the biggest discounts right now in terms of price to NAV that you’ll see in the entire junior mining space.

Frank Curzio: I love having CEOs on at the right time for you guys. I don’t want to put them on when their stock is all time highs and things are great. And it’s awesome. I want to try to have them on at the right time. So where does that result? It results in you telling everyone about my podcast, increasing our listener base. More people subscribing to my newsletters. So, not doing the right thing, doesn’t benefit me at all. I think right now this company has tremendous upside potential, but you be the judge after you listen to Steven. It’s going to be a great, great interview coming up.

Frank Curzio: He’s going to tell you all about this new venture and why it could be one of his business success stories. In my educational segment, I’m going to talk more about conditioning. This is a big deal guys. It’s how to train yourself to follow the data instead of your emotions, being able to change your mind on a dime, which is hard to do. I know it’s hard to do. Again incredibly important because it’s going to open up your mind to incredible opportunities, things you would never think of investing it. And this style of investing, which I’ve been preaching, which I’ve been talking about for decades and decades, allowed me to outperform the markets most of my career.

Frank Curzio: So please, pay close attention I promise you’re going to learn a lot from this segment. Just taking a different approach and listen to all the people who just pound the table with the thesis for 20, 30, 40 years without even looking at the data, without even looking at anything changing, it could really significantly hurt your portfolio. But first let’s get to my interview with, I’m calling him resource legend, Steven Dean. Steven Dean, thanks so much for coming on Wall Street Unplugged.

Steven Dean: Thanks Frank, thanks for having me.

Frank Curzio: So I highlighted your most recent success at Atlantic Gold and the gains you made for your shareholders just before this interview. I’ll give you a little investor preview, I also highlighted some of the success you had over your career. Now you’re onto a new project, which I know you’re really excited about. Could you tell everyone about it?

Steven Dean: Yeah. Well, Artemis has just closed the acquisition a few weeks ago, of the Blackwater Project in central British Columbia, it’s a 10 million ounce deposit, very large by global and industry standards. It’s located in central British Columbia, which is perfect and a strong jurisdiction for mining projects. It’s literally an hour’s flight from the capital of Vancouver and we’re pretty excited about it.

Frank Curzio: Now when it comes to the Blackwater Project and I’ve done a lot of homework on this and research on it. How were you able to find such a great project? Because when I’m looking at super low, all in single costs, set tier one mining jurisdiction, 10 million ounce reserve, it seems like, when you look at the royalty companies having trouble getting really cheap assets or taking pieces of these assets right now.

Frank Curzio: Talk about that process because you really just closes, I think last month, right? I think it was announced maybe two months ago, but you just closed it, now you’re seeing it reflecting your stock price obviously it’s going higher but how did this all come together? Because as someone who has been in this industry for three decades, it’s interesting to see how… when I look at this asset it’s pretty amazing.

Steven Dean: Yeah. I should also mention that we released the pre-feasibility study, which basically is a whole different look at the economics of the project. And that gives you a clue into the answer to your question. And in that this asset has been on the development drawing board for almost 10 years now. It was held by a company called New Gold, they had some challenges in their business and their debt level has increased and it became an asset that was not core to them. And it was an asset that we, the Artemis team were familiar with.

Steven Dean: Our team specializes in de-risking and taking a different approach to gold developing assets. We did the same at our company Atlantic Gold before it was sold to an Aussie company called St Barbara for 800 million in cash. But what we saw in Blackwater was the potential to re-engineer it and change the risk profile, reduce the initial capital and take advantage of some of the ideas and approaches that we have employed in developing assets combined with an increase in the gold and silver price since 10 years ago. All of which together gave us the opportunity to present a brand new project with a very different production profile and more importantly, a very different economic return.

Frank Curzio: Now you highlighted different approach. One of the things I noticed when I was researching is, the use of leverage. And sometimes leverage is a dirty word to people out there but you look at most developers in your space are going to raise money through secondaries, which really, sometimes they’ll deal with the shareholders sometimes. But with Atlantic Gold and now seeing with your new company Artemis, using leverage debt to finance development, explain why leverage is better for the shareholders.

Steven Dean: Yeah. Well, the first comment I’d make in response to that question is that management and board own approximately 42% of the company. So we’re not hired guns like so many of the managers are in our industry. We are owners first and foremost, we make our money when all shareholders make money. And issuing shares is something we take very seriously and the dilution of value by issuing repeatedly lots of shares in equity raisings is something that we approach with a lot of discipline.

Steven Dean: That aligns us as you can imagine very much with all shareholders and it puts us in a fairly unique position. For a company our size, I don’t know that there is any other company in the industry globally where board of management own that much of the company. I think, as I said, that’s one of our differentiators and that’s what makes us think and approach our business differently. And when you come to the question of finance and debt… We don’t like debt either. But what we do know is where there is a question of cost of capital, and we always have to consider cost of capital in growing and developing an asset or growing a company.

Steven Dean: We’ve got to be mindful of where the best cost of capital is in order to grow the business. When your share price is trading well below value then that means that the cost of raising equity finance is expensive, it’s high. If it’s trading at a premium to value, then there’s an argument that your cost of capital is low or lower. The markets whilst have improved in the last six months or so in 2020 for the gold sector and the gold price itself. It’s still not bubbly or out of control and it’s still very disowning. And as a result, companies like us still are undervalued in the market.

Steven Dean: And so for as long as that persists, we are very frugal with issuing our shares because that is the most expensive form of finance we can procure. And when there is the opportunity like there is with this asset where it’s located in a tier one jurisdiction, really long life, a two year payback on capital, that’s the sort of thing that traditional banks, not these high yield lending banks but traditional banks, like to lend into.

Steven Dean: With interest rates where they are, Frank as you know well, debt money is almost free these days. Banks are going to lend at a margin but offer a pretty low base rate of zero or something near zero. So we can borrow money for four or 5% representing essentially a four or 5% margin for the banks. That’s good business for them but it’s also the cheapest cost of capital for us.

Frank Curzio: How important, because when I look at… and I compare you to other companies and being involved in this industry and speaking at a lot of these events in Vancouver, well I’m seeing what you’re doing on the financing side, how important is that for the leader to understand financing? Because sometimes these companies have geologists running them who think a lot differently, well they could drill anywhere they want everything’s going to be cool and not focusing on that.

Frank Curzio: But how important is it to you? Because it seems like that’s how you build such a great following where you’re using these methods in financing… Remember these projects in junior mining space most of them are not going to generate any revenue for a long time till they’re developed. How important is that? Because your focus on that, I could see why so many investors have followed you for such a long time.

Steven Dean: Well, it sounds pretty ridiculous to say it and if you talk to people in other industries about the importance of the economics and return on shareholders, for most other industries people say, “Well, duh, of course that’s important.” For the longest time our industry got away with a rising gold price over the last 20 years. And the use of capital and capital with discipline was just not a priority and size and scale and discovering more answers whether they were economic or not, often was the drivers.

Steven Dean: And that’s never been in my 35 years in business, cash flow and return on capital has always been paramount. You can call it a little bit selfish in some ways because the bottom line is, the reason why we think about things like that is because we are the biggest shareholders of the company. And so financial discipline, capital discipline and managing risk, which is another whole sector of discussion. Managing risk is really important to us.

Frank Curzio: That definitely makes sense. And when I started doing research on you and looking at your successes, you strike me as someone who doesn’t really need to do this anymore. Right? You just sold Atlantic at $800 million and you’ve done it numerous times throughout your career. In terms of buying early stage projects, developing the financing I mean, it’s a lot of work. Why after the huge sell of Atlantic, do you decide to get back in the game? What’s the motivation there? Because again, someone like you, I think you could be like, “Hey, I’m done, I’m going to live my life.” But, to me even talking to you seems like you’re more motivated than you’ve ever been.

Steven Dean: I am. And it’s interesting you point that out, Frank. There’s an extended answer to that. The first part is, I love this business of course and I love sharing and mentoring my team and my colleagues and identifying new up and coming people in the industry where I can share whatever I’ve learned and share the mistakes I’ve made in my career and make a contribution that way. I also want to say that I was president of a company called Teck, which was and still is the largest diversified mining company here in Canada, for a number of years up until 2002. I actually took a 10-year sabbatical from running businesses and running companies.

Steven Dean: I didn’t step away from the business completely, I started a copper company called Amerigo and I went onto some hedge fund boards and some private equity boards and those sorts of things. But I had a 10 year break in the middle of my career, which really re-energized me. And so when in 2014, we saw the opportunity to create Atlantic with markets down and gold assets being unloved, that was a perfect environment for us to step back in and reassemble the team. Many of which I’ve worked with for 25 more years and just deliver our playbook, which is all about managing risks, focusing on capital discipline.

Steven Dean: Things like fixed price contracts on construction, so we make sure the risk of any capital overrun on bills is shifted back to where they belong, being the company that’s responsible for building it. Using the best technical approach to mineral resource estimation, it’s called MIK model and it takes advantage of the enormous amount of computing power that is available to us today using geostatistics and thereby using things like great control or high density great controlled drilling, RC drilling during the course of mining to better delineate boundaries between ore and waste and to use that modeling to improve performance and minimize dilution in all bodies, with data which is typically 20 to 30 times more dense.

Steven Dean: In other words, more information is good to help us mine this deposit optimally, and way more than a normal resource model would at a 25 or 30 meter spacing. So all of these things combine to help us manage the risk and optimize the performance over the asset. So you’re right, we built Atlantic and it was a success for many people and we’re very proud of that. And the team is proud of that.

Steven Dean: Frankly, I thought that with us having demonstrated those approaches to the business and developing an asset that the market would be full of copycats, and that we would have competition. Again, for these assets where these things could be applied. It turns out that nobody’s copied us. I said to our team, “Look, here’s the opportunity to do this again but this time with an asset that’s five to 10 times bigger,” and therefore the returns potentially are five to 10 times bigger than what we enjoyed and were able to generate at Atlantic.

Frank Curzio: And I was going to ask you that question, how does this project, as someone who has that history of showing your shareholders so much value and just developing these assets on cost, on time how’s it compared to other assets? But I think you answered that, right? This seems like one of the best projects based on what you’re saying. But I didn’t want to put words in your mouth.

Steven Dean: It’s an outstanding asset for which we can apply some of these disciplines and there are not very many, 10 million ounce gold deposits in the world that are not yet developed. Very few, in fact and there’s even less than that, that are in tier one countries and not just in tier one countries but in tier one locations such as, backyard central British Columbia. And then finally, very few again that have the social and the environmental license in the form of an environmental assessment certificate to proceed to construction.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. That’s just incredible. What are some of the plans ahead for you? Because I know there’s going to be a lot of people listen to this. And the listeners are very smart, they do their research, they do the homework, they’re not geologists, they buy stocks across every industry. But the first thing they’re going to see is, wow, this stock’s up tremendously along with a lot of junior miners because of the gold price.

Frank Curzio: To me, yes, it contributed to it but it’s because of this project, the pre-feasibility study, that really is a game changer to the point where I think your stock is cheaper today based on price NAV than it was even when it was dollar before you really had made this announcement. I don’t know if you’d agree with that assessment, but what do you tell shareholders there? Because that’s the first thing they’re going to see is wow, this stock has gone up a lot and people associate a higher stock price with a more expensive company.

Steven Dean: Yeah. Look, I think analysts and yourself and your listeners are going to need to do their own homework and their own evaluation. But the facts are, and this is all we can speak to, that we’ve done a detailed study, a feasibility study to proceed towards construction of this project which tells us that at $1,500 gold not the 2019, 50, I think it is at the moment gold price, that is the spot price. At $1,500 gold which is what TheStreet says is their best estimate of what the long-term gold price is.

Steven Dean: I frankly think they’re way off the mark, but with governments devaluing their balance sheet by the spending that’s going on and in order to battle this pandemic, it will only serve to cause a further rise in gold price. But, forget all of that and really that speculation. What we do is, we base our assumptions on conservative assumptions, gold price of $1,500 this project generates a net present value, which is the discounted value of the cash flows that it will generate of 2.2 billion Canadian.

Steven Dean: If you do the math and simply divide the number of shares that we have out by that number, that will give you an indication of what the ultimate value once we fully de-risk this asset and it’s in construction and ultimately then commissioned and then in operation, that will give you an idea as to where real value lies. And that value is way above where our stock price is today.

Frank Curzio: No, that’s great. And one last question before I let you go and I really appreciate the time here and feel free to say no comment, but I’m going to ask this anyway. I’ve been interviewing experts, billionaires, analysts, CEOs for 13 years on this podcast. I always do tons of homework on my guests because it’s my responsibility to prepare for these interviews. And I was researching your career over three decades, it’s incredible. I don’t say that lightly. Yet, I don’t see your name mentioned in the same conversations as Lukas Lundin’s, Rick Rule’s, Eric Sprott’s, Ross Beaty’s even though some of these people I just mentioned actually invested in your project. Does that provide any motivation to you? Because after doing that research on you, for me, I think you should be included in that conversation.

Steven Dean: Wow. That’s very generous of you. I don’t see that. All those names of those individuals, I have the highest regard for, and some of them are mentors of mine. And look, I don’t put myself in the same class. We just do what we do and I think we do it well and we’ve created value for a lot of people and create a lot of value for ourselves and our supporters. So, what we do is slightly different or different to Ross or Lukas or some of those other names that you mentioned. They’re very, very successful people and we’re not in their league, but we do our own thing.

Frank Curzio: Well said. And Steven thanks so much for coming on. We really covered a lot, Artemis Gold good luck with it, following it for a while now and I’m really, really excited about this project. Thank you for taking the time, for coming on.

Steven Dean: Thanks Frank.

Frank Curzio: Yeah it’s great stuff from Steven. He was awesome. Full disclosure, I own shares of this company. I was in a financing early on and I’ve done incredibly well, had warrants on it, which I could convert and sold but still had the original position. But this is something I’m going to hold for a very long time. In fact, I’m going to continue to add to it at this level, because after researching it and really digging into the numbers and to see where this company is right now, it’s cheaper today than it was when I first invested in it.

Frank Curzio: So I want you guys to be aware of that. Again, I don’t like having guys on there with it touting their stock, the stock is at a tie. But when you’re looking at evaluation, which we talked about, this is one of the best junior miners that I’ve researched in terms of having a world class asset. I mean, checks off every box, every single box. I’ve been talking to Marin just two, three days ago, I said, “This company is like amazing.” He’s like, “I know.” He’s like, “It’s more cheaper.” And when I’m looking at this name, because I’ve researched so many junior miners in this space, this checks off almost every single box.

Frank Curzio: I usually don’t see that. Maybe the geography is not good, maybe the insider ownership is not that high. There’s over 40% here. Maybe they need gold prices to really go to 22, 2,300 this way, this chance to… no. We talk about 1,500, that’s where he’s using basis for versus now set 1,500 gold, 2,000 now. But one of the cheapest companies you’ll find in the entire junior mining space based on price to net asset value and the insiders just still own over 40%.

Frank Curzio: Again, these guys being in a company this long and watching it, not selling a share, it tells you where they think they could take this, because they’re used to this guy not just building an asset on time and on budget, but selling this or developing and creating a monster, monster company. And that’s what he’s looking to do. And that’s what his partners believe. That’s why they’re not selling a share.

Frank Curzio: So pretty cool stuff. Again, do your own homework on it. To your full disclosure, I’m in this stock already. I bought it at a lower price because I was in a financing. I really didn’t pay attention to it. And then, after they got the Blackwater Project, amazing. Looking at it today, it’s cheaper today than when I bought it back then. And when I was in that financing. So again, do your research on it, do your homework on it. This isn’t something that’s a trade. You might see it go up after the pockets, whatever. Sometimes it happens.

Frank Curzio: This is something I’m in for long-term to see, because this is a guy that has a history over three decades. And the biggest people out there investing alongside him. Where when he puts everything he has into a project, it almost always works out. And I’m willing to take that chance by doing the research. So, again, risky company, it’s a junior miner, be very careful, only put speculative money and if you’re interested but, I wanted to highlight because this is a name you’re not really hearing out there, right?

Frank Curzio: I mean, you’re not hearing this name any place and I want to try to present you with really good ideas, which we’ve been doing a fantastic job on this podcast and even my guests. Guys, if you look at the performance of Dollar Stock Club, it’s been pretty amazing lately. The guests have been putting up amazing, amazing ideas, where we take an idea from the podcast and we write up one page report and we set it. We give a portfolio by up to price, a stop, more of a trading newsletter. But man, the ideas that we’ve been getting on this podcast, guys, you should be doing very, very well, and I really appreciate the guests coming on so hopefully we can continue that.

Frank Curzio: Now, let’s get to my educational segment. And it’s about conditioning. I mentioned earlier that we’re all conditioned a certain way. Even when it comes to investing. I provide examples of what our parents tell us. You’re watching TV, if you watch CNN you’re conditioned to think what they think. If you’re watching Fox you’re conditioned to think what they think. Honestly, for me, I watch both. For me, I watch CNBC all the time. I try to watch Fox Business because it lets me see what the investors are thinking of, it’s mainstream. And if you could prove mainstream wrong, you’re going to make a ton of money in stocks.

Frank Curzio: But it’s important to think like this as an investor. People say, stocks splits provide no value. I’m a fundamental analyst, I understand that. I understand that $10 is the same as 10 singles, I get it. But you cannot tell me it doesn’t provide value after you saw what happened to Apple and what you saw happened to Tesla and will happen to Google, Berkshire. Any of those huge price stocks, if they announce stock split that thing is going to surge. So you could be a value investor and say, “This is ridiculous, I don’t understand.” Or, maybe buy a small portion of some of these stocks, jump into Google’s, get in Berkshire, buy a few shares. Because you know, you’re probably going to get a good 15% plus pop if they announce a stock split. And why wouldn’t you do that, if that’s providing value.

Frank Curzio: But I get it, is it meaningless from a fundamental point of view? Fine. But for some reason it’s being viewed as a technical indicator right now, not as a fundamental indicator and just to see people, “Oh, this is a joke,” and watch Tesla, what is it up like 35, 40% since the split? Since they announced the split. It’s pretty incredible while everybody’s bitching. Obviously the people that are bitching are the people that don’t own them. People tell you, Zoom, Tesla can’t go higher. Zoom expectations are sky high. They blew them out of the water. Those numbers were incredible. Yes, it’s trading at a crazy valuation. Yes, people are going to say it has a big market cap than Boeing and compare it to everything to try to justify it. Who cares? Follow the trend. If Zoom is going to continue to put up these crazy numbers, that stock is going to go a lot higher, even from this price.

Frank Curzio: That’s it. That’s what the stock is based on. That’s what it does. Forget about fundamentals, just like Disney. I was rolling Disney, forget about the fundamentals on Disney. I was looking at it from the fundamental point of view and I still don’t understand it from a fundamental point of view. But I could tell you something, I’m bullish on Disney now because I think Mulan is going to change the landscape of how we view streaming. I think they’re going to sell the crap out of it because there’s no movies out there and everyone’s going to die and hopefully they sign partnerships. They should sign partnerships with everyone, Netflix and do affiliate deals and collect 30%. Again, it’s free money to them.

Frank Curzio: But if Disney’s not down based on those fundamentals now, everything’s going to get better and better. So for me and my emotions, did I lose money on the stock? Yes. But I’m not like just pound it to Disney every day. Just like when you look at Tesla, the bears, man they crushed that stock. I’ll talk about that in a minute. But, another thing, the US is filled with debt which will eventually crush our economy. Guys, debt doesn’t matter. I know, I said it. You’re going to send me an email, frank@curzioresearch.com, what are you talking about that man? The only thing that matters is if you’re paying your debt, and we’re paying our debt.

Frank Curzio: Maybe the states aren’t, that’s fine. But if you looking corporate, they’re paying their debt. The ones that aren’t, are going bankrupt but most of these companies are. Interest rates are super low, it’s going to be very easy to pay this debt. It’s not a problem till it is a problem. Believe me, there’s millions of warning signs. If debt becomes a problem, you’ll know it. You’ll see it in the bond market. You see it in swaps, credit default swaps. You’ll see it in just so many different areas. It’ll be highlighted on CBC every single day. You’ll see it, but it’s not a problem.

Frank Curzio: Stop worrying about it. You’ve been worried about it for 20 years and nothing. You watched the market go higher and higher and higher of something that you worried about that you didn’t need to worry about. Imagine what you could’ve done if you cleared your head, and the stocks you would have invested in. Train yourself to think differently, to ask yourself, what if? What if my thesis is wrong? What if everything I believe about a story is not right? Because, getting back to Tesla, I’ve seen tons of really, really, really smart investors telling me Tesla was going to go bankrupt. And that’s okay, because we all get things wrong from time to time, that’s fine.

Frank Curzio: They could’ve run out of money, they’re done, they’re accounting, everyone, the executives leaving, the cars are terrible. All this shit that you’ve been reading, they’ve been saying since stocks were at 300 and went to 2,200, 2,300. Now trading at what? 450 after it’s a 5-1 split. But, they’re still saying the same thing today, “Tesla is terrible. It’s a crook,” not realizing that the average investor following you on Twitter has been short the whole entire time because he’s following you. Now, he no longer follows you because they had to sell their mobile phone because they’re completely broke and you’re still pounding the table on something that didn’t work.

Frank Curzio: Imagine all that time, all that time could be spent on finding new ideas. Just move on, you were wrong. But if I can give you… In fact, the most important advice, don’t be one of these people shouting from the top of the roofs that, “No matter what the data is, the dollar is going to lose its reserve currency status.” Man, how many books? How many books have been written about crashes, have revised about crashes? And more crashes and more crashes. We’re at all-time highs. Look at the S&P 500 since the ’50s, it’s the biggest secular chart you’ll ever see, higher and higher and higher.

Frank Curzio: But don’t get to the point where you’re conditioned that you won’t even listen to the bearish side, especially of your favorite idea. Because it’s a terrible way to invest. I see it so many times the problem is, it just continue to short the markets and they’re not looking at the data. One good example of this is, is COVID. For me, I was incredibly bearish. I think I could say that I called that the market was going to crash, it crashed. I was still bearish at the bottom. Because I said, “Wow, even if the government comes in and they spend as much they did in TARP or up to even double TARP.” Which was about $480 billion to save the whole entire market.

Frank Curzio: I was like, “The whole economy is closed, they need to shut the stock market.” How they’re closing every single business for months and they’re going to keep the stock market open. Notice by May, I changed my thesis because I had no idea the Fed, which spend over $7 trillion, 35% of GDP to support everything. That’s a pretty big data point. And since May we’ve been long, they’re doing great on portfolios, they’ve been bullish. I don’t like the fact that they’re doing this. I don’t like the fact that they’re spending a ton of money, but it doesn’t matter what you like, it matters what’s happening. That’s the most important part.

Frank Curzio: Remember, stocks don’t have feelings. They don’t love or hate you. When the facts and data change be willing to change on a dime. That’s what the greatest investors do. They’ll only help me generate huge returns over my career which I’m sure a lot of you have been part of probably for over the past 25 years. But more important, it saved me a ton from having monster losses, by being able to change my thesis once the data changes. Okay guys, I want to thank you we’re still seeing huge demand for our Curzio Venture Opportunities newsletter.

Frank Curzio: You know how I feel about small caps. I love the fact that so many people out there are saying that, “Small caps are going to underperform.” They’re starting to perform. And a lot of these small caps are in the sectors that I mentioned that are the most depressed, that are down a ton. As COVID we’re seeing the data get better and better, better to the point where a year from now, I easily see 75, 80% capacity open across the board, across every state. Hopefully we don’t have any setbacks but, we should have a vaccine, which will be taken by the people who are in danger zone.

Frank Curzio: And it’s going to change the entire landscape where people are going to feel more comfortable and travel but, I’ve never seen a great opportunity in small caps. Maybe once or twice, during the past few crashes. But right now, they significantly underperformed the large cap index, which is rare when you see a bull market. Usually small caps outperform on the way up, and they underperform on the way down. And there’s a lot of opportunities out there, you’re looking at the Zoom’s, you’re looking at all these stocks that are up hundreds and hundreds of percent, these stocks are still down 25, 30% from their highs.

Frank Curzio: And if you look at their quarters, no one’s paying attention guys. No one’s paying attention to their quarters. And I highlight this because I just recommended three stocks in Curzio Venture Opportunities. Their numbers are much better than expected, they’re seeing huge demand, in 2021. Bookings are starting to go through the roof and, these guys have done a great job when it comes to leverage.

Frank Curzio: We’re providing themselves the opportunity where, hey, if this continues for another year, we’re going to be okay. So we recommended several stocks within these sectors, have high hopes for them. I think they’re going to go up tremendously. But it’s rare that you’re finding stocks that are down so much, I’m not talking about buying these cyclical names and buying oil companies right now, I think that’s late to the party. Chris MacIntosh was on, he really likes oil right now but it’s more of a long-term thesis. For me, when you’re looking at the ones that have been impacted the hardest by COVID and you could throw oil in there. I just don’t think you’re going to see that much demand for oil. That’s going to take a little bit longer.

Frank Curzio: You’ve seen prices go up a little bit because, there’s a lot of supplies coming off the market. They just can’t make money at the current prices. But when it comes to these cruise ships, again, you don’t just want to buy any cruise ship, you don’t just want to buy any casino. You want to make sure those fundamentals are good. Liquidity is the name of the game. Guys, you got to look at liquidity, how much money do they have if they only stay open to 25% capacity, you want to make sure that it’s longer than a year because that capacity is going to grow and grow and grow. And when, this economy and when COVID, that risk is totally gone with the amount of money flooded into this market, to the Fed’s throwing recklessly, and how these companies significantly cut their costs.

Frank Curzio: You’re going to see earnings, profits, sales explode and the stock price is going to fall. So, I want to thank all of you who have subscribed to Curzio Venture Opportunities, we’re still offering that 60% discount that’s on our website if you’re interested, if not, no problem maybe small caps are not your thing. But, very excited about this product. And thank you because there are a lot of people subscribing to it. Again, that 60% discount’s only available to listeners, people on our file, we’re not sending that offer out to anybody else. So if you want to take advantage, you’re just probably are going to email you could take advantage, or you could do it on our site at curzioresearch.com.

Frank Curzio: So guys, I really appreciate all the support. I keep saying this, and I’m looking forward to it. We’re very, very close where you’re going to see tons more video. The podcast is going to be broken up in segments on video, you’re going to have Daniel coming on. It’s going to be a lot of fun. Try to get some of these people in-house, fly them over here to do interviews. So, we have the studio getting set up and everything. So we’re really, really excited. A lot of those videos you could find on the Curzio Research YouTube page, and also you could follow me on Twitter. Feel free to tweet me, whenever. I always have fun with that. I always have fun with the comments and nudge people a little bit, so it’s really cool but that’s @FrankCurzio if you want to follow me. So guys, thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate all the support. And I’ll see you guys in seven days. Take care.

Announcer: The information presented on Wall Street Unplugged is the opinion of its hosts and guests. You should not base your investment decisions solely on this broadcast. Remember, it’s your money and your responsibility. Wall Street Unplugged, produced by the Choose Yourself Podcast Network, the leader in podcasts produced to help you choose yourself.