Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street right to you on main street.

Frank Curzio: How’s it going out there? It’s Thursday, July 14th. I’m Frank Curzio, host of the Wall Street Unplugged podcast, where I break down headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. Today’s Thursday, interview day, and have a great one set up for you, which I taped at the Meta Expo in Vegas last weekend. I was with so many amazing people there. But her name is RJ White, who is the owner of the Vipers pro men’s basketball team. And she just bought another team in Europe. First woman, Black owner… And I hate it, and we talk about this in the podcast, labeling her, but just an amazing, amazing person.

Frank Curzio: I mean, someone who worked hard to get where she is, an inspiration to so many young women who play basketball. She also runs a big basketball camp for Nike, men and women, no noise. But you could see why this is personal to me. As someone that, you know, loves basketball, has who daughters that play basketball. And just to see her break through, this is an interview that gave me goosebumps. Not only that, she is going all-in on the metaverse, which you’re about find out why, but this is going to be an awesome, awesome interview. And let’s get to it right now. Here’s RJ White.

Frank Curzio: So, pleasure having you here, RJ. And I don’t even want to build it up. I just want you to build it up. So actually, I’m going to build it up now. Because I’m excited. So, woman owner, two teams, just… Not only is it inspiring, and what you’re doing for the community, but how did you get here? And talk about the teams, and talk about the journey.

RJ White: Man, journey is the exact word. Literally. Six years old. I was just letting a few people here know about my story growing up. At six years old, I knew I wanted to own an NBA team. So, I told this to my dad, at six, “You need to just sit down for a second. I know you’re late for work, but we got to talk.” At six years old, when most girls are probably playing with Barbie dolls and baby dolls, I’m like, “So, if we can reposition the Detroit Pistons to have more behind-the-scene footage, I think that we’ll have more people coming to the games on fans.” It was just really crazy.

RJ White: But at six years old, I knew I wanted to own an NBA team. And I knew I also had to get my feet wet, so that’s where the Vipers came about. It was like, “Okay, you got to have your test run.” Right. I didn’t know it was going to be that big. I didn’t know we were going to be in 12 countries, 5.1 million analytics. I didn’t know it was going to grow like wildfire. And then, it opened up a lot of other doors for me, which is how it opened up the door for me, for my second team.

Frank Curzio: The second team is in Europe.

RJ White: It’s in Europe.

Frank Curzio: And you met someone who’s a little important. Right?

RJ White: I would say The Queen is very important. Yes.

Frank Curzio: Did you hug her? Did you shake-

RJ White: No, you can’t. You can’t touch her at all. I’ve come across some very eclectic people in this journey. Me also finding out recently that I am the first African American female in history to own a pro man’s team in Europe. Didn’t know that at all until I started doing my own research, because I thought they were playing a prank on me. And turns out, that is the case. And I’ve always, like I said, wanted to own an NBA team, and now those conversations are being had. So…

Frank Curzio: So, your accomplishments here are unbelievable. And I think it’s really hard for you to say, how do I think bigger? Right? Because there’s so many accomplishments. But yet, for me, when I look at you, I see that this is a door that you just opened up. Like I see.

RJ White: Just one of many. Right?

Frank Curzio: Right. No, but it’s because now you’re inspiring so many people. And talk about your social media following, how many people following you. Because these people watching everything that you do. And now they’re like, “Holy cow, she did. Now I can do it.”

RJ White: Yeah. That’s funny. Because that’s actually the name of my children’s book, “She Said She Could, So She Did.” Yeah, literally.

Frank Curzio: I had no idea. How cool.

RJ White: It won’t come out until… I’m releasing it close to my birthday, but it’s surreal. I’ve had conversations with some of the girls of Jamaica. I’ve had some conversations with some of the girls of Europe. And just to hear the motivation that I give them, that dreams are possible, especially in a field where it’s more male-dominated, just the fact that you could actually accomplish that, being a woman and being who you are, and staying consistent and staying focused on your goal. I think that’s why they followed me. Originality. Because a lot of what’s going on right now is all about the media. Right? It’s all about the influencers. And so, here’s somebody that has a story, where it started from a small tyke, and I grew into what I wanted to be. I do see why.

Frank Curzio: Well, how come that door is so hard to open? So, somebody told me this, but I have more women, I think, employees in my company than men, but I didn’t hire them because they’re women. I hired them because they were the best. Right. It’s just, I’m going to hire the best people. And are you seeing that more, where it’s not just like, “Oh wow, we need a woman owner.” It’s like, “No, this girl really knows what she’s doing.” And are you getting support from everywhere? Or how big is this?

RJ White: I’m getting support from all over. And I do agree with you on that. I think that because now the trend is the first female X, Y, and Z, which it just-

Frank Curzio: To me, it takes it away from it. I’m like, “Man, it’s like-“

RJ White: It does.

Frank Curzio: It’s just like, you’re an owner.

RJ White: You just reminding people.

Frank Curzio: When we label it, I’m like why? For me, that always bothers me. Because I’m like, it takes away your accomplishment, how hard you work sometimes. I’m like, “No, you work really hard to get here.” And it’s not easy just because you’re something where, and that’s why I see that. Like me, I’m getting goosebumps talking about it. Because to see how you did this, and when you came. That it’s not easy, right?

RJ White: No, not at all. And it is just mind-blowing to know that now we’re in the times where it’s the first female something. And it’s like, “We’re in 2022. And we’re talking about the first female of anything.”

Frank Curzio: I know.

RJ White: And for me, people always ask me, it’s like, “What’s your biggest challenge?” And I’m like, “I’m just getting started, and I haven’t had any yet. So, imagine when I get to where I’m going. And I don’t think I’ll have any there either, but I just like the fact that I can deliver.”

Frank Curzio: This is a pretty easy question. Where are you going?

RJ White: The goal is the NBA. Which one are the cameras? The goal is the NBA right now.

Frank Curzio: Any particular team? Or is it just getting in there?

RJ White: No.

Frank Curzio: Which is always hard. Right? I mean, it’s not like you can pick a team. It’s what’s helped you.

RJ White: I think it’s just getting my foot in the door. And I don’t want the big guys yet. They can have the big teams. Right now, I’m aiming for G League. And like I said, those conversations are being had. So.

Frank Curzio: Talk about G League compared to WNBA. I mean, for me, it’s almost like college basketball compared to the NBA. It’s like, all-out playing. And sometimes it takes it away about the amount of money you’re making, because it is a business, it is a business. But the G League and the people that you’re dealing with. And I mean, yeah, not that the pros don’t work hard, but it’s like the passion is there. All what they’re doing is because they love basketball.

RJ White: Oh yeah.

Frank Curzio: And are you easily able to spot the people that, hey, you got what it takes to get the next level?

RJ White: Oh yeah. That’s actually the reason why I selected the G League first, it was because those guys have grit. They’re the ones putting in overtime. They’re the ones that nobody knows who they are, just like myself. And I feel like the underdog always comes up on top. And I feel like that’s what the G League consists of. And that’s why I’m interested in it.

Frank Curzio: That’s great. So, next step here for you… So the time, I mean, you have a meeting, I don’t know if you could say who you have a meeting with.

RJ White: No, it’s okay. No, no, no, no, not right now, but I do have some pretty big meetings coming up. And after that meeting happens-

Frank Curzio: I know. I just didn’t feel I can say, which is cool. And you’re like, “I’m nervous about it.” I’m like, “You shouldn’t be nervous now, with your accomplishments.”

RJ White: I was nervous, literally, when I announced who it was with. As anybody would be. But like you told me, just be calm, be yourself, just things will work out fine. And I think we’re headed in the right direction.

Frank Curzio: So, everyone wants to look at how big the opportunity is. This is going to be great, but they don’t really, now the challenges are going to get bigger for you.

RJ White: Oh yeah.

Frank Curzio: Right. They always do. And the challenge that I would think is, when you’re at the level where you could help so many girls and give them more time, now you’re on the business level and you want to grow, it’s a different set of meetings. How do you keep that in your heart? Where, “Wow, I want to really inspire these kids, inspire all these people are following me.” But yet, you are running businesses, which is hard. Is it to the point where “All right, it’s time to get really a lot of people that I trust.”

RJ White: I feel like it’s just one of those things, you have to stay focused on the goal. And a part of being focused on the goal is manning everything around you. And for as long as you can keep in control everything around you, I think you’ll keep the same narrative. You’ll keep the same look, I guess you could say. And it’s keep the same choice. So, as hungry as you were, and as busy as you were and as many people that you hired and had with you, I think you should keep those people with you and around you. So that way, they can continue to keep you focused. And you can keep staying focused on the prize going forward. If that makes sense.

Frank Curzio: The most important question by far.

RJ White: Go ahead.

Frank Curzio: You’re still playing basketball. Right?

RJ White: I ran track. My dad told me no, wherever the camera is, my dad was like, “No, you not hooping right now. You’re going to focus on the business.” And I respect and appreciate him, my mom too, until this very day. Because they kept me very focused on what the goal was, which was my dream. If I would’ve played basketball, just being honest, with my mentality. I mean, obviously, look at what I’ve accomplished. I probably would’ve went to the league. My goal then would’ve been probably focusing on me being a player within the league. I could see that. And then from there, probably ownership within the league that I was in, and most likely probably dominating. So, I feel like he did a good job by telling me, “Okay, you could stay athletic, go run track. You could do good at it. You’ll do good at it.” Which, I was great at it. And stay focused on the business. And I think it worked out great.

Frank Curzio: So, this is probably the most special interview for me. One is, I told you basketball’s my life. And you know how that is. It’s everything to me, even now. I still have the passion for it, but even my daughters play.

RJ White: Oh wow.

Frank Curzio: And you want to inspire them. And when you ask them, “What do you want to do? You want to play basketball?” It’s like, all right. WNBA, but there’s got to be more to that. Right? I mean, it’s got to be more aware if that’s the goal, not just because it’s selective. Right? You got to be great, but it needs to be more out there, right, of more that you could do. And how do you get that where inspire my daughters to keep playing? Especially challenging, so many things that are out there with social media and everything. You want them to play. But I mean, I just feel like the NBA, the WNBA’s here, but there’s so much more to basketball.

Frank Curzio: What I’ve learned allowed me to be successful in business. And you could define successful, not necessarily by money or whatever, but just have a good following. But how important is that to keep inspiring these kids? Because I think it’s more challenging now than it was for me, because we used to go outside all day. Now, these kids are playing video games, want to be on the phone.

RJ White: Yeah. I think it’s very important, because that’s actually the number one thing. You got to get them off of the couch and get them outside. And you got to get them off the couch and get them into their niche or into the sport or field. I feel like girls all over the world, not just in United States, Europe, they’re losing their interest in the game of basketball. And I think that’s because they don’t have the vision of where basketball can take them. And they don’t have really a lot of voice and opinion on what to do next. And I do think that me being that voice, I guess I could say, of just making sure that you have structure. So say, for instance, if a young girl does play WNBA, now that you’re in the WNBA, what are you investing in?

RJ White: Where does your career path take you? Do you have your own shoe line? Are you doing your own level of branding? I think that’s a lot of the things that we’re missing. And I think that because they don’t see that and there isn’t a lane for them to follow there. I think that’s why they say, “Well, where does it lead me?” And so, I’m cool with being that voice. I’m cool with being that person that they can ask or look up to in regards to that scenario. But my main thing to them would be, create your own lane. What they say, opportunity ain’t nothing for you to create something yourself if it ain’t there yet. So, I think it’d be cool.

Frank Curzio: So, last thing here, branding. How has that factored into the metaverse?

RJ White: Man, branding is big because the metaverse is just, it’s like a new oyster. To your question, what is the metaverse? I don’t think anybody knows. And that’s the best part about it. For as long as you don’t know something, you can create it. And I think that’s what the metaverse will do for us. Branding for us, it’s a billion-dollar organization right now. Yeah.

Frank Curzio: It’s so much opportunity.

RJ White: Too much opportunity, especially for me and my mindset, it’s expansive.

Frank Curzio: And are you getting a lot of questions from that? Or is it because like you said, sometimes the goal is WBNA or the NBA, and I’ve talked to people, right, here that represent some of these, whether the agents. And they’re trying to educate them. And they’re older and saying, “Look, the average person doesn’t do what LeBron does and you got to prepare.” And it’s hard to tell these people to prepare, but are you getting those questions? Are you trying to-

RJ White: Yeah, definitely, on all walks and facets. Because you have parents that want to get their kids ready for the metaverse, because it’s the new futuristic things. So, maybe they want to do cohorts on making sure that their kids understand what metaverse is. And then, you have people in sports that’s saying, “How do we get into the metaverse when it comes to sports, which is our lane?” And then you say, “What is metaverse in general?” Right? So, I do think that it’s just different things that you can do there, and branding and being yourself is actually going to be the number one thing.

Frank Curzio: That’s cool. Well, I want to thank you for coming on. Listen, keep doing what you’re doing because there’s a lot of people watching, inspiring, and it’s inspiring even to me. So, I really appreciate you taking time to come on here.

RJ White: Thank you. I appreciate it. Look.

Frank Curzio: All right. Thanks.

Frank Curzio: So, great stuff from RJ. And that meeting, I believe, is with NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, I believe. Because she did a poll of how many young girls watched the NBA. And it was a super-low percentage. I want to say 5%. Don’t quote me on that. But it was really, really low. And Adam Silver probably wants to change that. How come young women aren’t watching the NBA? You could have your own reasons why, whatever. We’re seeing NBA numbers down significantly. And I’m not talking about year-over-year with COVID. I’m talking about year 2019. So, trying to figure that out as much as they can, it is going to be interesting. But RJ, is just look, I could see her being a minor owner of NBA team. I mean super, super-expensive. She would be able to raise the money for that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Frank Curzio: It really does. She has the experience, super-professional men’s basketball teams. And really exciting stuff. It’s someone that I can point to my daughters and say, “Look, look at this person, look what she did. She’s also coming out with a book.” And for me, it’s just, I said it in the interview. I never look at hire anyone based on race, based on gender. I just always hired the best person. And that’s why I took away where she, I feel like sometimes when you label anyone. The first woman, the first Black, the first this, it takes away from it. It seems like that’s the reason why they got the job. And that’s not the case. Sometimes it’s the case. Sometimes in politics, it could be the case. And that’s why we got to stop saying that. The first this, the first that, the second this, second that. I mean, if we stop labeling, then you don’t have any of this crap.

Frank Curzio: Right? Racism, you don’t have anything, as long as we keep placing labels. And to see what she’s accomplished and to see that she’s just getting started. Really, that interview gave me goosebumps, and just anything I could do to help her out. You could see how much she’s focusing on the metaverse. The metaverse around, every obviously the Meta Expo, everybody that we spoke to, just the entrepreneurs that we saw there, and there were ideas. They just need help on structuring, on getting their message out. If you ever read a white paper, you would know why. You’ll see my presentation in front of that audience. And it resonated with so many people at the beginning of the first day, where our booth was set up and we were doing interviews. The first half of the day, we didn’t really do anything.

Frank Curzio: Everybody was opening up their booths. And then, we started getting lots of interviews, but word started spreading rapidly. And then, over the next two days, Saturday and Sunday, just our booth was filled with people. It was just, and the people were the companies, which is amazing because they saw how we could help them. And I saw how they could help us. And it was more like a partnership, of course, we’re getting the help with developers in the metaverse and things like that. We met dozens and dozens of developers that could help us immediately, that want to help us. And for me, I was able to help them and say, I’m starting to realize this in crypto. And when I analyzed these utility tokens and I said, “More than 90% are worthless,” which you’re seeing right now, a lot of these kids are launching and young people are launching that.

Frank Curzio: They’re just launching them because they think that’s the way for them to raise money. And they don’t understand that you’re actually really, really screwing over all your investors because it doesn’t have a utility function. And I’m saying, if you did a security token, or if you provide something where your investors. And I said this, it was, “Never, ever screw your investors. These are your family. This is people going to be around.” I said, “You could be wrong. You could be wrong. And that’s fine. As long as they see you going all out and doing everything you possibly can. But the way your token structured is, let me make money off it and screw everybody else. And you lose everyone that invests with you for the rest of your life and you damage your name. Your name is your biggest asset.” And a lot of these guys got great projects.

Frank Curzio: So, I told them they need to simplify stuff, because you read a white paper and you eliminate 99% of the audience because people aren’t going to invest in things that they don’t understand. I said that they need to give away equity, which again, most people, and I would say more than 98% of people don’t understand equity. And that’s a hard sell, because the metaverse is about equity. It’s about having your own content, having ownership of it. And every employee wants equity, and a lot of business owners don’t want to give it out. And I explained to them, “Hey, we did $3 million last year in revenue. How do we buy a $5 million asset? The largest virtual land purchase.” And I explained to them, owning 75% of a company with maybe a $6, $7 million valuation.

Frank Curzio: But then, we were able to sell off part of our company where people own an equity stake who backed me. And now, we have a much higher valuation, where it’s like 65 million. Now, we’re looking at taking half stock, half cash and we’re able to sign this deal. Now, we can go to on the metaverse. Now, we can grow the company. And our valuation is the people who are invested believe that where we’re going is the right way. We’re going to continue to grow this company. But now, it gives us access. Not only we have access to almost all these metaverse companies, because word’s getting out that they could trust us and we put our money where our mouth is, but now we have the Wall Street backing as well, where we have a good audience. And I know hedge fund managers, and over 120 billion has flowed in already into the metaverse.

Frank Curzio: So, hedge funds talk to other hedge funds. I’m like, “We need to get into this industry, but we don’t really understand it. And we need someone that we could trust.” So, we are becoming a bridge and one of the only companies there. So almost… Not even almost, I want to say every single company was just all over us. So, it’s not like you have a booth, and you have all these customers coming in. Because a lot of customers will pay $99. They want to learn stuff. And maybe, again, I’ve been to conferences for a very, very long time, like The Money Show and stuff like that. And as a business, it doesn’t really pay. It doesn’t. I mean, you get a lot of people who are free and they want this. And yes, you’re getting an opportunity to meet some of your customers who’ll go to some of these shows. I’d rather host my own conference for Curzio Research.

Frank Curzio: But I made the team very clear that our audience are all these people in these booths, all these companies. And now, we have access to so much within the metaverse, but you could see so many great ideas. And I’m going to release a lot of these videos going forward, probably about 75-80 that we took. And you’re going to see a lot of these guys have great ideas. We could help them structure their token. They have access to, man, they had social media presence. Some of them are anywhere from 50,000 to 10, 15 million, some of them, right? So now, they’re going to tell their audience about us and say, “Hey, these are guys that you could trust.” And that’s how you network, and that’s how you build. And just seeing how we’re a bridge in this. And this is a trend I truly believe in, if you don’t believe in it, $120 billion in six months have flown into this industry.

Frank Curzio: And you know what? There’s not really a metaverse out there. And I’m not talking about Oculus. You could see that’s a virtual platform, but they’re all going to start launching the second half of this year with TCG. And by early next year, you’re going to see a bunch of them. And you don’t see $120 billion flow into an industry. That’s following the money. And a lot of people believe, talked about the forecast of 10 trillion-plus, and I showed you how big 10 trillion is compared to all the other trends combined. Major ones, AI, gaming, just EVs, all this stuff combined. 5G doesn’t, it comes about $6 trillion. Everyone talk about metaverse being $10 trillion-plus, and this is not long. We’re not far away from 2030. It seems like a long time, but it’s not. Because building into that is going to be huge. That’s why there’s so many ways you can make money in this industry.

Frank Curzio: So many ways. And the big money is flowing into this during a recession, that much money is coming into this industry, something I’ve never saw in 30 years. The amount of money flowing into industry this new, where people have trouble identifying and explaining it. And that’s why we’re creating a movie, which is going to be called “What the F is the Metaverse,” because we asked that question to everyone we interviewed, and we got a different answer. Just like you would get a different answer if people explained the internet. I’m not saying this is the internet. I think it’s going to be as big trend as the internet. I think it’s one thing, but all these different metaverses are all platforms. And whoever has the most entertainment, the most fun, that’s what people are going to flock to. That’s going to be the new social media. That’s going to be the ownership.

Frank Curzio: And remember, if you’re listening to this going, “Frank,” and I get this a lot. “The metaverse, I don’t know. We’re early. It’s going to take couple years.” The whole entire younger generation up to 30 years old, only grew up in the internet ever, basically. And now, they’re all engulfed in social media. Now a lot of these kids are entrepreneurs, and they want to own their own stuff. They understand they don’t own stuff when they’re on Google, they’re on YouTube. On a platform like Facebook. They don’t own it. And it’s a reason why Facebook does a whole about-face. There’s a trillion-dollar company at the time, but he made this announcement in October. Trillion-dollar company that has access to three of the 5 billion who are on the internet. They sit in your living room. So, they know every single thing that people think, what they’re going to do.

Frank Curzio: The algorithms are there. And they just did an about-face, said, “We’ll go all on the metaverse.” The thing is, that’s not a true metaverse. They’re going to have the audience. They’re going to make it exciting. It’s going to be gamification. It’s going to be a virtual platform. The true open metaverse allows you to own all your content, create whatever you want. So, you’re unleashing creativity for millions and tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people. And say, “Okay, let’s see what you can make of this.” And I got a taste of that at the Meta Expo, what all these young people. And some of them aren’t even that young, some of them are 35, 40, 50, and you see other people getting in. Famous people getting in that we interviewed, I’ll present those interviews for you. It was incredible to see so many different ideas. It’s going to start with gaming, but gaming’s a very small piece of the overall metaverse. That’s going to give you a chance to see it.

Frank Curzio: But when you’re looking at social media and the time people spend and TikTok and stuff like that, a lot of that time is going to shift to the metaverse. It’s going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And if it just becomes 10, 15% of digital economy, that’s when you see the trillion-dollar market, the total just on market, which we’re going to get there. So lots of ideas, lots of great interviews. I got RJ, but you could see the whole young generation. They are getting into the metaverse. They’re all going in. They want to own their own content. They see it and they deserve it, but they also need help structuring it. How to focus on getting investors in, making sure investors are getting their stake, if it’s worth it. And I told them a lot of entrepreneurs, you’re all entrepreneurs out there. And had a big speech, keynote speech.

Frank Curzio: And I said, “There’s a shot you could sell your company. And if you sell your company, you’re probably going to still be young. You’re still going to be an entrepreneur. You’re going to want to start another company. And all you have to do is call any single person, invest in you. And they’ll write a check. And they won’t even ask you the details of your company, because you made them money.” That’s what I do. That’s what people do when you trust them and you made money in certain deals. That’s how you build a massive network. Because if you do it the other way, which a lot of these kids are doing, they don’t realize how this token is structured. As you end up making a million or two, you think that’s a lot of money, but you go crazy and start buying stupid stuff. Then you run out of money, and you’re trying to do whatever.

Frank Curzio: And nobody trusts you anymore. Because you’re ruined your name, which is the most valuable asset. So, just seeing the people that we spoke to, RJ is one of them. We have tons of interviews. I’m going to share a lot of that contest, especially through our YouTube page and on this podcast. But questions or comments, guys, about metaverse or anything like that, give us a call, frank@curzioresearch.com. That’s frank@curzioresearch.com. Again, send me an email, and we’re going to find many ways and simple ways for you to play this trend. Not going to say we do stocks, or not anything, it could be land purchases. We’re going to point you to the right metaverses. All you need to do is buy some of this land and stick it in a wallet. That’s it. If you want to develop it, you can develop it. You want to learn about it, learn about it.

Frank Curzio: That is the entryway. That’s the easy entryway. And you’ll see a lot of those recommendations coming, since I’m going to be interviewing so many of these people going forward. Because they all want to be in our movie, which we’re going to hopefully launch within a few months. But a lot more interviews need to take place. I’m going to go to Miami in a couple weeks, setting up so many great meetings with top metaverse companies. And again, you guys are going to have 100% access to all of this, just because I’m a nice guy. And I like to be nice. Anyway. Okay. Questions, comments, I’m here at frank@curzioresearch.com. And have a great weekend, guys. I’ll see you. Bye.

Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged is produced by Curzio Research, one of the most respected financial media companies in the industry. The information presented on Wall Street Unplugged is the opinion of its host and guests. You should not base your investment decision solely on this broadcast. Remember, it’s your money and your responsibility.