Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street right to you on main street.

Frank Curzio: It’s going out there. It’s January 27th. I’m Frank Curzio, this is the Wall Street Unplugged podcast where I break down the headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets.

Frank Curzio: It’s Thursday, interview day, and I got a great one set up for you. One of your favorites and that’s John Petrides, asset manager at Tocqueville, a guy you’ve likely seen on CNBC. Man, I think I see him on there every day, in the media a lot.

Frank Curzio: Great track record. Which he’s sharing lots of his picks in Dollar Stock Club, our portfolio, since we have him on probably once a quarter. Again, a guy with a great, great track record. It’s awesome, I know you guys see that.

Frank Curzio: He’s also a very good friend, really, really good guy. He’s someone where I can go anywhere with, with the markets, which I love. Sometimes, I’ll interview people who are sector-specific, or you just talk about crypto or maybe the Fed. We go anywhere. He’s one of those Andrew Horowitz types of guys, there’s certain guys that I have on here that are regulars. We can go anywhere and talk about.

Frank Curzio: We’re going to really dig in because there’s a crazy market. We’re going to cover what’s going on in the volatility, the Fed meeting, where to allocate your money during this extremely volatile time. And of course, John is going to share his favorite ideas, like he always does.

Frank Curzio: Let’s get to the interview right now. John Petrides, thanks so much for coming back on Wall Street Unplugged.

John Petrides: Hey, Frank. Thanks for having me on.

Frank Curzio: Pretty crazy markets, I’d say. Let’s start there, because you’re a guy that we’ve done this for a long time, very, very good friend, and we can go anywhere pretty much. Whether it’s economics, the Fed, stocks, sectors, and everything.

Frank Curzio: But let’s start with the overall macro, because this selloff seems a little crazy to me. Listen, we saw the Fed do an about-face in November, but the risks pretty much are on the table where maybe, okay, we expect an extra rate hike, we know inflation’s high. We get it, the Fed’s outlined what it’s going to do.

Frank Curzio: To see a selloff the way we’re selling off almost every day and seeing it broadly, you see the leveraging taking place. Right? What are your thoughts on this? Are we coming close to a bottom here? Which I know is difficult to figure out. What are some of the things that you’re doing at Tocqueville and you’re telling your clients right now?

John Petrides: Yeah. I thought about this selloff a lot, and I think that it’s happening in multiple layers. The first layer was right out of the gate you saw a pop in interest rates and the US 10-year went from like 1.45, 1.5% to 1.8% in a three-week period.

John Petrides: As we know, Frank, when interest rates go up growth stocks in particular, and all stocks, go down. But growth stocks, long duration stocks, companies where the earnings and the sales won’t come to fruition until five, six, seven, some cases 10 years out, those get clipped the most.

John Petrides: That was the first couple of weeks of the new year, was the market recalibrating from a valuation standpoint on rising interest rates. I think the second wave that pronounced the selloff was JP Morgan had a good earnings call, but it wasn’t a great earnings call compared to expectations.

John Petrides: You had a selloff in some of the subscription-based companies, consumer subscription-based companies, where estimates were baking in a lot of subscriber growth and it didn’t meet that fruition. That was, I think, a disappointment to investors.

John Petrides: Then you have geopolitical risk back in the fore fray, with what’s going on in Russia and in Ukraine and Biden telling diplomats to leave is not a good sign of potential things to come in that area. Then, Frank, I think there are structural issues going on in the market as well.

John Petrides: You’ve had three years of massive returns, particularly in the S&P 500. On average, over the past three years, the market has returned 25%. No one wants to sell in December because then you have to pay the tax bill. I think you have some tax selling in January, where you’re reducing your position, that you would’ve done in December.

John Petrides: I also think that there are probably institutions, maybe sovereign wealth funds, that are probably rebalancing their portfolio. Where again, if the Fed is taking the punchbowl away and US stocks have done really well, evaluations are not as attractive as, let’s say, Japan or Europe or even emerging markets, maybe you have rebalancing going on away from US stocks, large cap, and into international.

John Petrides: Another structural thing is probably margin calls. I mean, margin rates where people are borrowing from their investment portfolio to either invest in other stocks, or they’re using their portfolio as collateral. When you get below a certain level, the bank comes knocking and says, “Hey, you have to replenish your portfolio because the value of it is down a lot.”

John Petrides: I bet you, because you’re seeing some really high quality companies that are selling off really for no explained reasons. So, I think there are margin calls going on.

John Petrides: Then finally, we’re lapping the one year of the new stocks and game stock, and I think you had a lot of retail investors that don’t have a coach, don’t have a financial advisor, or subscribe to your newsletter, is not listening to what you’re doing from an advice standpoint. And they’re out there on their own, and I think they’re really getting their first taste of a massive selloff.

John Petrides: Because listen, last year the S&P 500 only had a 5% selloff from peak to trough. That is very low. Usually for the past 40 years, the average correction from peak to trough, in the calendar years, is about 10%. Last year, it was only five. You have many new investors in the market that have never experienced this type of volatility and they may be panicking.

John Petrides: I think you have all of those factors together, and it leads us to where we are right now.

Frank Curzio: When we see times like this, I mean, would you suggest being a buying opportunity? Because like you said, tell it, it has to do leverage, margin calls, because you’re even seeing good names. Even gold stocks, I think, would be doing pretty well in this environment, I’m thinking financials too.

Frank Curzio: I mean, Wells Fargo just raised their dividend. JP Morgan’s results are pretty good, a little bit light on revenue. But still, higher interest rates are going to result in them expanding that. That is just margin, right? It’s good for them. Even those have sold off.

Frank Curzio: What do you tell clients that have come in, where they’ve been so used to, especially over the past few years… Just to say that, 20% average annual returns on the S&P 500 over the last three years is insane, right, when you really think about it.

Frank Curzio: I think people get those expectations are high. But we’re under conditions where numbers didn’t matter because we had the Fed punchbowl, where everything was at record highs a year ago. Household wealth, earnings hit record high a year, and we still injected another $9 trillion into this market.

Frank Curzio: When I think that’s how far behind the curve is. And that’s nine trillion on top of ten and a half trillion dollars. Right?

John Petrides: Yep.

Frank Curzio: Now, I think we’re in the market where numbers matter, and I respected what you said last time I had you on. This might’ve been before November, before the Fed, because you were talking about dividend stocks and companies generating cashflow.

Frank Curzio: When you hear that, it sounds boring. But yet, these are the stocks, some of these things also got hit, which don’t deserve to get hit because in a tough environment like this this is the names that are going to excel. Right? And take market share.

Frank Curzio: Are you still looking at dividend stocks? Are you still looking? What are you telling your clients how to play? Are you looking at… We’ve always looked at numbers. But now, it’s more relevant than it’s ever been because numbers are going to matter, especially when you’re taking leverage out of the market.

Frank Curzio: When you have an unlimited amount of money, it doesn’t matter. Everything’s getting funded. Now, it’s a different landscape. How are you playing this in terms of financials, dividends, and things like that? And also, you could go into thematic investing, which you’re very big on.

John Petrides: Yeah. Let’s take a step back. I think when you’re investing in a market, I think the first thing you need to do is understand who you are as an investor. With our clients, we try to set their asset allocation at day one.

John Petrides: Understanding that what are they trying to achieve, what’s their risk tolerance? Because we know days or times like this are going to happen over the course of someone’s life. If not one time, it’s going to happen 10 times. You want to set expectations and manage risk and asset allocation appropriately to meet that person. Now is not the time to rearrange the deck chairs. That should’ve been done already.

John Petrides: I think another thing that you pointed out during the question is this is not about fundamentals. This is about valuation. Underlying fundamentals, by and large, are pretty good. The consumer by and large is pretty good, housing is strong, although rates are going up liquidity is still ample.

John Petrides: Company balance sheets are good. Growth stories are good. Things are getting gunked up because of supply chain issues and inflation is playing with profit margins. But by and large, things are okay. This is all about recalibrating valuations to a new normal of higher interest rates and realizing that valuation does matter.

John Petrides: At some point in time, a story isn’t going to hold up if a company is not profitable. The moment that those expectations go a little bit less for the fundamentals, or the results come a little bit less than expectations, is when problems happen on stock valuations and everything comes in.

John Petrides: As Warren Buffet likes to say, “When a tide goes out, you see who’s swimming naked.” That’s kind of the environment that you’re seeing right now. This is not about fundamentals, this is about valuations recalibrating. I think that’s important.

John Petrides: We still very much favor dividend paying stocks. We do a lot of homework on those companies that can grow, sustain, and maintain their dividend during periods where underlying turbulence is underway. Fundamentals weaken, companies… One of our strategies, our enhanced income strategies, are very, very strong. We’re yielding over 4%. That’s growing that dividend over time.

John Petrides: Frank, I mean, I don’t know if you want to go into some thoughts and ideas now. But I do think that the selloff, and yeah, we talked about thematic, I think the selloff in thematic investment, investing, has really got kicked to the curb.

John Petrides: In 2020, you couldn’t open up any financial news without seeing Cathy Wood from Ark Investment on somewhere. She was everywhere. In 2021, it was the exact opposite. In fact, someone created an ETS to short whatever she’s buying. That’s unbelievable.

John Petrides: Then all of a sudden, now there’s this play against thematic investing. I think if you’re able to put your long-term hat on, I think thematic investing right now is really attractive, often to selloff. I really like cybersecurity as a theme, I think artificial intelligence and robotics as a theme is attractive.

John Petrides: A lot is being… I think the world is moving towards ESG, as that’s not a new statement. I think companies and countries are moving towards more clean tech, environmental solutions. I think clean technology can exist even without Build Back Better. Because that has been a headline risk.

John Petrides: But I don’t think companies really care about Build Back Better to a degree, unless you’re going to be that company receiving a contract from the government. I think the movement towards clean tech is going to continue to happen.

John Petrides: I think those are three themes, at least, that I think have a very long runway in front of them. Instead of from a diversification standpoint, if you don’t want to go out, stick your neck out to pick individual stocks, buying a basket through an ETF is, I think, good risk management and diversification.

Frank Curzio: No, it makes a lot of sense. Guys, just thematic investing is looking at long-term trends. Right? In case you didn’t know. And themes Cathie Wood has done. She’s done fantastic up to a point, and then now you’re seeing the fund, I think it’s down 50% from its highs. It was up tremendously, like 200% outperforming the markets.

Frank Curzio: Now, I guess question two is just so many trends like this. You can go into metaverse, AI you mentioned. Man, I mean you can go almost anywhere. EVs, autonomous vehicles. But if you’re looking at the markets, where this is… Where you’ve seen the most corrections, where semiconductors actually held up pretty well. Better than the market, maybe down 10-12%.

Frank Curzio: But when you look at cloud companies, massive market, I wouldn’t say it’s not in its infancy but probably in the second, third inning of how big it is, growing still 35% annually. These names are down 33-35% from their highs. Does that have anything to do with it? Where yes, you see nice discount, and this is awesome, and you have ESG names, some of those are down 20% plus.

Frank Curzio: It is just those three? Do you look at hey, not only are these are good, but I like ESG, and I like it even more that it’s down 35% compared to maybe semis that are down 10-12%, when you might not see the value. Do you look at it that way, or just like, hey, this is a great opportunity?

John Petrides: Yeah. Well, I’ll give you in terms of our thematic some of the themes that we’re playing. I mentioned robotics, AI. I mentioned clean tech, I mentioned cybersecurity. We have a play on clean water, water resources. We have a play on marijuana. We have a play on Ethereum and crypto. We have a play on biotech, human genome sequencing, that sort of thing.

John Petrides: There’s a whole bunch of themes. Right now you just have long duration assets. Longer term assets are just getting repriced because of higher interest rates. But the underlying fundamentals, and the research that we’ve done on those themes, are really, really attractive. Really attractive.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. It is interesting when you say higher interest rates. No, go ahead. Sorry.

John Petrides: Yeah. Frank, another theme there, slightly different and going back to your point you were just going to make about higher interest rates. Going back a point on income and dividend yields.

John Petrides: Another theme, another way to play it, is short duration, high yield. An ETF we like is SHYG, SHYG. Like I said, this is not a credit issue in the world that we’re in. Credit is really strong. It’s because in the high yield market what makes things bad is when company fundamentals are bad and credit’s bad. That’s when buying high yield or junk bonds is dangerous.

John Petrides: But you don’t have that in today’s situation. If the issue is rising interest rates, that impacts long data bots. What we like, SHYG, it only buys high yield bonds that mature between, basically, today and five years from now.

John Petrides: Your maturity’s less than five years or less, and you’re getting a 4.9% dividend rate, and it’s an ETF, so you’re getting a basket of high yield bots. We think that is actually, ironically, the high yield market may be a safe place to be in today’s environment because you’re protected from interest rate movement, you’re taking on credit risk, but you’re getting more yield. The volatility of that is going to be less than what you’re getting in the S&P 500.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. Isn’t it amazing, we talk about interest rates. We know the Fed say if it’s priced in before rate hikes, but if you’re looking at the 10-year growing from 1.4 to 1.8, which is a major move, right? 1.76, whatever it is.

Frank Curzio: We’re doing this before the Fed actually makes… Before the meeting, just to let you guys know. They’re supposed to say they’re going to announce a rate hike, the first rate hike in March. Who knows what they’re going to do, but just to let you guys know. I don’t want to throw you under the bus if you make a prediction, and they’re like, wait a minute, this guy know what he’s talking about.

Frank Curzio: But 1.8%, that’s what? Nine months ago. If you look from that point, even to 2013, I mean, we were higher than 1.8 almost the entire time through, yeah, going into 2020.

Frank Curzio: Yeah, they’re higher but it’s not crazy high. Where, yeah, I just feel like with this market, and I could be wrong, right? I said there’s a fundamental change that you need to adjust your portfolio, it’s going to be more volatile than ever because the Fed, this is the first time in a very long time that they can’t throw money at something to fix it. They got to do the reverse, they got to take money out of the system.

Frank Curzio: I didn’t see this much of a correction happening across the board, I had to be honest with you. I didn’t see this much of a selloff. To understand the risk that we see, and maybe it’s five rate hikes, I get it. But are we pricing in a severe recession at these levels? Or maybe, hey, this is just… Again, we both know there’s a lot of great opportunities out there.

Frank Curzio: Good name stock, not to name names, not garbage names, that have these crazy profiles and 50-year discounted cashflows, whatever. They aren’t generating money revenue. A lot of good names, like Best Buy, 11 times forward earnings, 52-week low, down 30% off its highs and growing earnings at 20%. Even if it’s growing earnings at 10%, it’s still cheap.

Frank Curzio: I mean, just seeing a lot of these names, it seems like a buying opportunity. Not just to dividend stocks, but maybe a couple of these thematic investing. I guess let’s go there. Is there individual names that you could share that you’re not giving too much away with people who pay for research and everything?

John Petrides: Yeah. Totally. I don’t think that we’re heading into recession. I’ve come to, as I’ve spent most of my career on the equity side and the stock side, and I’ve come to appreciate that the bond guys are the nose of the plane. When the yield curve on the bond market moves, equity investors should listen more than they probably do.

John Petrides: The yield curve is steep. Which means the market is expecting economic growth ahead of time, in the future. Until I see the yield curve, or steeper, until I see the yield curve invert then that means the market is… The economy, the market, is starting to price in that the economy is going to lose steam, and we could be heading for recession.

John Petrides: I don’t think that’s the case. I think this, again, is a recalibration of valuations going on in the growth sector. Growth and tech stocks have been carrying the baton here for investors for five years now. A lot of stores just went wild and bid up stocks in probably too aggressive a way.

John Petrides: It happens. It happened in the late ’90s in dot com, it happened to solar stocks in 2007-2009. It happened to 3D printing stocks in 2013. It happened to marijuana stocks in 2017-18. It happened to crypto. Crypto’s still down 50%, but I mean, all of these story stocks sometimes get ahead of themselves from an evaluation standpoint. The underlying company or entity has to grow into that valuation.

John Petrides: I mean, it took 14 years before Amazon got back to its IPO price. I mean, think of that and where is Amazon today. So, it takes time.

John Petrides: Frank, going back to one of your other points, though, is I think one thing that investors need to appreciate is when you’re investing in something or you’re looking at macro data, it’s all about the rate of change. It’s how fast or how slow something happens that impacts a valuation.

John Petrides: What do I mean by that? Let’s say the price at the pump to fill up your car right now, a national average is, I don’t know, $3.25. Let’s say by next week, it goes to five bucks and it stays at five bucks for a while. That would slam the country maybe into recession, because people just aren’t ready for that.

John Petrides: But if the price of gasoline goes from $3.25 to $5 over a five year period and it happens gradually, well, people can budget for that. Right? Your point on interest rates is the absolute level of interest rates, the 10-year, US 10-year bond, is at 1.75, 1.8%.

John Petrides: Historically that’s nothing. That’s really cheap borrowing of money. Right? But it’s how fast we got there that is spooking people. That’s the key, it’s the rate of change that throws people off.

John Petrides: Because remember, the Federal Reserve raised interest rates from zero to about two and a quarter percent from 2016 to 2019. We went 225 and the stock market did great. Now, there are a million other factors what drove stocks during that time period.

John Petrides: But by and large, if interest rates go in a slow and steady pattern, the whole world can forecast better because there’s no surprises in there. That’s kind of what’s going on right now.

John Petrides: The Fed has basically admitted they’re behind the curve, they’ve printed too much money for too long, and things have kind of got away from them from an inflationary standpoint. Now they’ve reached one of their mandates, which is full employment. Now they’re trying to sustain, or stabilize, price increases. Which is the other part of their mandate.

Frank Curzio: Okay. You have SHYD as one of your picks.

John Petrides: Yep.

Frank Curzio: Again, you were talking dividend stocks and nobody is. The ultimate bullish sign right? When nobody really cares. It’s kind of like when you say to certain people, uh, you know you’re right. I hate when I recommend something and everyone’s like, “That’s a great idea.” I’m like, “Oh shit.” Right?

Frank Curzio: But what are some of the names? Even if it’s thematic or if you’re… Yeah.

John Petrides: Yeah. I still think from a yield standpoint, I think REITs, our real estate investment trusts, are still interesting here. REITs had, I think, their best performance in 2021, if not ever definitely in the last 25 years.

John Petrides: You have seen some profit taking here to start the year. But I think REITs are very attractive here for a couple of reasons. REITs own a hard asset, typically they own an apartment building, a shopping mall, a data center, an industrial warehouse, college campus dorms. There’s a whole bunch of things. They own a hard asset, goes up in inflationary environments. Just worth more.

John Petrides: Secondly, they charge rents. Right? They can increase those rents at or above the rate of inflation. That gives them tremendous pricing power to their underlying tenant, which helps them get more earnings. REITs are required to pay out 90% of their net income in the form of a dividend.

John Petrides: You’re getting, I think, some inflation protection plus some yield. And by and large, the sector looks to be, judging by my screening, anywhere between 10 and 15%, 10 and 12% to start the year. I think there’s value in REITs, no question about that.

John Petrides: SHYG is another way to play some income and offer a little bit of protection on the downside. A HACK, H-A-C-K, would be a cybersecurity play from a thematic standpoint. I think cybersecurity is tremendous. I think if you see a ramp up in geopolitical conflict, who knows what’s going to come out of the Russia-Ukraine situation, but I would assume most defense dollars are going to be done to protect against cyber war more than on the ground. I think that’s where all of the money’s going to be headed towards.

John Petrides: And by the way, post-COVID, all of our lives have become incrementally more digital. I don’t care if you were off the grid beforehand, and now you have a Disney+ account or whatever it is, you’re now online. You’re on the grid. Because of that, someone else has your information. There’s going to be a continued push to protect that.

John Petrides: Robotics and artificial intelligence. BOTZ, B-O-T-Z, is another ETF that we own for some clients on a thematic side. That’s a play on the labor issue in the United States. We’re either all feeling it, if you’re a business owner you can’t find labor. Right?

John Petrides: There’s a million reasons why. People don’t want to work, people are ill because of COVID, they have family situation. Whatever the reason is, you’re short staffed. That’s only going to… To get people to hire, what do you have to do? You have to pay them more.

John Petrides: Wages are going up. You have to give out signing bonuses. You have to do all these things to entice people to come back to work. If the labor situation can’t get rectified soon, companies aren’t going to sit and wait.

John Petrides: They’re going to invest in technologies to automate industries. That’s just going to be the move forward. So they don’t have to pay people, they don’t have to worry about if people get sick, and they don’t have someone to cover their routes.

John Petrides: We live in a just in time economy. I think robotics and automation is going to be a continued theme, if not an accelerated theme, because of what has happened out of COVID.

Frank Curzio: No, it definitely makes sense. As always, appreciate the ideas. If someone wants to learn more about you, how can they do that?

John Petrides: Yeah, sure. You can find us at… Thanks for putting that up. We’re Tocqueville. We manage about 10 billion in assets under management between individuals, families, mutual funds, and institutions.

John Petrides: My team manages about 1.2, 1.3 billion of that 10 billion. We build separate accounts, we manage for tax efficiency, we build portfolios for what clients are trying to achieve. And we use a mixture of large cap core equity, we use a sprinkle of thematics.

John Petrides: As I mentioned, we have our enhanced income strategy where we’re getting more yield in the bond market with less volatility in the stock market. And we do taxable and tax-exempt fixed income, where we’re trying to found out a balanced portfolio for our clients to be an all-weather portfolio.

John Petrides: Not everything is going to go up all at the same time, all at once. But you don’t want that because the purpose of diversification is to zig when something zags. Nothing goes up all together at the same time, all the time.

John Petrides: That’s how we do it.

Frank Curzio: Well, I have to say this. This picture, I mean, I have so many people that come on, and they’re always like, “Hey, here’s my picture.” This actually looks like you. Usually, people are sending me pictures when they’re 22 years old, and they’re 50 now. This is a really good picture of you.

Frank Curzio: This actually… look at that. Look at that and look at this, mm-hmm.

John Petrides: Listen, that picture was taken about two and a half years ago, pre-COVID. So, I had significantly more gray and white than I did at that time. Don’t be fooled too much by the overhead lamp that I have in my office here.

Frank Curzio: Usually, I make fun of everybody. I’m like come on, that’s not you right now. Are you kidding me? It’s funny. That’s a good picture of you.

Frank Curzio: But last thing, very important. We know we’re in serious times, the stock market all over the place. But we always joke around because we really work hard, and not just joking but serious. We both take fantasy football seriously. How did you finish the year? Any championships? I know you were in a few leagues.

John Petrides: My son won one of his leagues, we usually do. He made the semis in a father-son league. He was the head coach. I made the playoffs and won. Made some poor decisions from a roster standpoint. I rode Miles Gaskin on the Dolphins and that guy destroyed my… I picked him early, I thought he was going to be my guy, and he hurt my league.

John Petrides: I’m in, Frank, a playoff survivor knockout pool. Week one of the playoffs I got every pick right. Week two, I got… you have to basically pick the winner, and then you have to pick the combined score of the game. The spread that you come from the combined score gives you bonus points.

John Petrides: Last week, I got one out of the three right. I only got the Rams correct. But I nailed, I had the exact point of the game. I picked 57 combined points. That’s kept me in the hunt for this upcoming week.

John Petrides: I think I’m leaning Kansas City and the Rams. I think I’m going with the favorites in both of them, to be honest with you.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. I think Cincinnati’s a sleeper because depending on Mathausen, if he’s back, because man, Buffalo tore them up in the backfield. They got nobody back there. They got both their guys hurt. I think Burrow’s going to eat him alive. Beat them, but just under the radar the odds are pretty good it will be interesting. But Kansas City definitely the favorite.

Frank Curzio: And yeah, good luck.

John Petrides: Tyreek Hill is-

Frank Curzio: See how fast he is on a touchdown? Holy cow. I mean, he was running like I was standing still. He should’ve got a taunting penalty, but he was waving at the-

John Petrides: He reminded me of Beau Jackson and techno bowl. We used to play Nintendo back in the day. The untouchable, unstoppable.

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

John Petrides: That’s what Tyreek Hill reminded me of.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. I’m hoping the games live up to expectations because, man, last week was probably the best that I’ve seen in terms of every single game being decided by a field goal or whatever.

John Petrides: Totally.

Frank Curzio: But really good stuff. I know we always talk fantasy football, which is good. Listen-

John Petrides: But how about yourself? How about yourself, Frank? How did you do?

Frank Curzio: Well, I was in two leagues. One of them I didn’t make the playoffs. The other league we lost in the semis. We were pretty much five games out. We won five or six in a row, had a good team, and just lost in the semis.

Frank Curzio: We should’ve won that game, but it was tight. We just got unlucky. I think we had Brady, and Brady did nothing in the second half of one of those games, and it just crushed us.

John Petrides: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: Crushed us. I was like, “Ugh.” Pretty good team, but it was a tough year. A lot of people were hurt, right? A lot of great picks. Did okay, second place not too bad. But again, I have a great partner that helps me out, just like you have your son help you out.

John Petrides: There you go.

Frank Curzio: Busy doing a lot of stuff. John, thank you so much for coming on, man. You’re a really good friend, you’ve been doing this for a while, you always provide ideas. People love you. Open invite as you know. But I really appreciate it, man.

John Petrides: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Frank Curzio: All right. I’ll talk to you soon, all right, buddy?

John Petrides: All right. Bye. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Frank Curzio: All right. Great stuff from John. He’s a really great analysts, even a better guy. Just to show you what type of a guy he is.

Frank Curzio: In February, January or February, I was just doing a lot of research on the markets. This is in January 2020, for the market crash in late February. I noticed that China was closing, a lot of people weren’t talking about it, everybody was bullish in CNBC.

Frank Curzio: I wanted to get on TV. Not that I wanted to show, I just… believe it or not, I know it’s going to sound cheesy. But I gave a shit. I just felt like the advice and what people were seeing, they were about to get wrecked.

Frank Curzio: I’ve never called a crash before. But interviewing on this podcast, people all locked down in China, in Italy, and understanding and having the right resources, which I was fortunate through this podcast, really being able to see that and saying, “Wow. China’s closing right now. Apple’s closing, Levi’s.” Everything in China’s closing.

Frank Curzio: We’re sitting on a 22 times, 23 times forward multiple on the S&P 500. A massive growth multiple. Understand easy market conditions. But you’re taking away the biggest growth component, which accounts for 40% of the world’s growth. Which is China, which is closing. Seeing and understanding and talking to the right doctors and things that, hey, this is coming here.

Frank Curzio: I wanted to get on TV, so I reached out to five, six of my good sources, analysts that go on TV. Did a little bit of an ego behind that where it’s my time, I want to be on TV, and you have to go through the producers and stuff. I’ve been on TV numerous times throughout my career.

Frank Curzio: I just don’t like it. I’m not crazy about it anymore. To me, it’s a waste of time, it’s not going to result in more people signing up to my newsletters or anything like that. The agenda always changes. It’s just more stressful than everything.

Frank Curzio: But yeah, I really felt like here’s a time I had the message to really tell people. It was different from what everybody was saying. I was thinking six, maybe seven, but like six of those people never got back to me. They’re like, “Oh, I’ll try.” They never got back to me.

Frank Curzio: John sent me a list of three of his contacts and producers. I reached out to them and it didn’t really work out. But I was talking to them. He actually took the time to send me the producers names and everything.

Frank Curzio: I think it was one that I was going to go on, then I wound up going on Charles Payne I think, who’s a friend of mine. But he really goes out of his way, introduces me to a lot of people and say, “Hey, this might be a great guest on your podcast, for your listeners and what’s going on now.”

Frank Curzio: So, he’s someone that’s a very good friend. Again, it’s not why I have him on, because this is an investment podcast, and I screen my guests thoroughly. Thoroughly, thoroughly. I mean, I just interviewed a guy, and it was kind of frustrating.

Frank Curzio: When I interview people, I know everything about them, everything they wrote. That’s my job. Right? I mean, that’s why people like to come on to this podcast a lot, because after an interview they’re like, “Well, holy shit, man. That was awesome, you really knew everything.”

Frank Curzio: I really like to tie it into even on a personal effect. They have something on LinkedIn or Facebook account. Everybody has Facebook accounts now and social media accounts. But I want to see what this guy’s saying. I’m interested in what he’s saying, and I want to learn more about him.

Frank Curzio: One person that we interviewed wanted to come over to the company and kind of high-profile. Again, I was reviewing a lot, I’m asking a lot of questions, so I knew a lot going in to the interview. He was asking me a lot of questions that he should’ve fucking known if he did a little research, especially if you’re looking to come over to our company.

Frank Curzio: Know how many products we have, know what we’re doing, go to our website at least. Right? I mean, even if you go on the interviews and stuff, know the company. Know everything about your company in an interview. Know how many employees they had, know the person that’s interviewing you, which is important. Might be there for 13 years, 15, whatever.

Frank Curzio: But man. That gives you such an edge compared to everybody else because when you’re sitting in that chair, you’re the same as everybody else. I mean, for me, education doesn’t matter. You give me someone that’s going to work hard, you can’t teach someone to work hard.

Frank Curzio: Give me someone that’s a diehard that’s going to go all in. I can teach you how to be a great analyst, I’ve done that before, even people here at Curzio Research. But it’s just surprising to see that people don’t go out of their way to do that kind of research.

Frank Curzio: It’s probably why 100% of the guests that I have on all want to come back on again, every one of them. Like that’s a great interview, it’s awesome. I’m like, “Look, I’m just really interested in you and your style of investing,” or what they’re doing.

Frank Curzio: I’m fascinated because I love to learn. Even if I have a difference of opinion. People were upset that I didn’t attack Mooch as much for politics, but what does that do? I’m not going to change his mind, right? Or Manchin, I’m not going to change his mind on anything.

Frank Curzio: Yes, I disagree with a lot of shit that he’s saying. But the amount of money he has in crypto, the fact that he can invest in our company, the fact he’s a great resource, the fact I can get to the SALT Conference, where you have ex-presidents talking, past-presidents, and the biggest hedge fund managers and more crypto funds and stuff like that.

Frank Curzio: You got to look at the bigger picture sometimes, right? You can fight all you want, but for me, I love this part of the job. I love it. John’s just a great source, he’s been a good friend. What I love the most is he’s got a great track record.

Frank Curzio: He was telling you to buy dividend paying stocks the last time I had him on, which was before November. Which I’m sure people are like yeah, whatever. I’m going to buy Virgin Galactic at 25 after all the insiders sold out. Now what is it? It’s eight Virgin Galactic. It’s amazing, right? When it came out at 10, you had Chamath and Branson saying, “This is the greatest thing ever, you have to invest and it’s awesome.”

Frank Curzio: It’s eight. How come you’re not getting back into it? Because you made a fortune off of the retail investor, which sucks. Right? That’s Wall Street, and it sucks.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. But John, he’s ahead of the curve, very good, and he’s just a good friend. Again, this podcast is about you, not about me. Let me know what you thought, frank@curzioresearch.com, it’s frank@curzioresearch.com.

Frank Curzio: You can find all of John’s favorite ideas, and I don’t talk about Dollar Stock Club as often as I should, but what we do is we take a pick from almost every week, someone that I interview, sometimes… I’m to going to interview somebody a week, depending on if I’m traveling. But I would say about 45 out of the 52, sometimes 53 weeks, that I’ll be able to have an interview.

Frank Curzio: What we do is we take a stock pick from them. It’s not necessarily a stock pick that they may say on air. Because I talk to them before and after, we discuss ideas. But I take one of those picks, we analyze it. Daniel does a lot of research on it as well.

Frank Curzio: And we provide a one-page report, and it’s called the Dollar Stock Club. It’s one of the greatest fricking newsletters, I think, because we charge $4 a month for it, which is insane. What we do is we just want to show you.

Frank Curzio: For new people who’ve never subscribed to our services, we have something to prove to you. You see something like this, now you’re getting picks from the pros for four bucks a month, give me a break, and you’re getting lots of picks. We provide stop losses by up to… We provide a nice, one page report.

Frank Curzio: These are us analyzing these stocks that they mentioned. It’s not like, “Hey, Frank, use that stock.” We’re looking at three or four of them, and I’ll look at it, Daniel will look at it, and I’ll basically base it on where the stock is, earnings and stuff. And say, “Hey, this is a really good idea. Let’s throw this in Dollar Stock Club.”

Frank Curzio: It provides lots and lots of ideas, but for $4 a month, that’s where you find John’s ideas, and you can see his ideas are good. And we get to track these people as well, for their ideas, which is important. Because if they’re giving you picks that the last three times I had them on those picks are down 40%, I’m not going to have them on again. Right?

Frank Curzio: I mean, that’s my responsibility and my job. I don’t want to put shit in front of you. Right? We all want to make money and be held accountable, which nobody’s ever held accountable, especially on Wall Street lots of the time. You can lose money, and then wreck a fund and raise a billion dollars a week later. Right? I mean, there’s just no accountability these days.

Frank Curzio: But I like that, that accountability. To see who’s good, who’s not, and that helps me put people in front of you. But Dollar Stock Club, if you want more information. Get it for $4 a month, absolutely nothing, it’s like a newsletter just to say hey, this is what we do.

Frank Curzio: We have other great products and services, and some of them are from a low end to very high end in terms of price. Never since I’ve been doing this for 30 years has anyone said, “You know what? I just paid for this newsletter, it wasn’t worth it.”

Frank Curzio: You’ll see it’s worth it. We do videos, tons of videos, video issues. You’re seeing… I’m educating you on these things, which is really cool. But good start newsletter, looking for new ideas from the pros, from guys that do this for a living.

Frank Curzio: It’s really cool, Dollar Stock Club. We started it a couple years ago. We have a ton of subscribers. But I don’t pitch it enough, I don’t talk about it enough. But it’s really cool.

Frank Curzio: If you’re just looking for lots of stock picks, quick read, buy up to price, we do a lot of research on these names. We’re not just giving them out to you. Some of those names you won’t just find through the interviews, you’ll find them… And from talking offline before the interview and after the interview.

Frank Curzio: You’re not always going to be able to sneak that pick in there and say, “I know Frank. He’s talking about this pick, this is a pick we’re going to use.” Sometimes you’ll hear it, sometimes you won’t. But it’s really cool.

Frank Curzio: If you’re interested in learning more, you can go to our website, curzioresearch.com. Again, it’s a pretty really, really good price point. And look, we have a cancellation policy that’s very, very easy. You just go to our website and you cancel it. It’s not like you got to jump through hoops like Disney+.

Frank Curzio: You try to cancel Disney+, good luck. You’re not going to cancel Disney+. You got to go through… forget it. You got to call 10 people and go through this whole whatever. It’ll take you hours.

Frank Curzio: If you don’t want it, cancel it. If you like it, continue it and you get charged $4 a month. We make it simple. Look, we don’t want to give you something you don’t want. It’s all automated, it’s all there for you, and it’s a pretty cool newsletter. But we do get some questions about it. And that’s the Dollar Stock Club.

Frank Curzio: Guys, that’s it for me. Questions, comments, feel free to email me frank@curzioresearch.com, that’s frank@curzioresearch.com. I really appreciate all the support. I know I say that every week but I truly do.

Frank Curzio: Looking forward to our token launch, which is just a couple weeks away. Which is exciting, launching on tZERO which means anyone listening to this is able to buy this. I mean, except Canadian investors unfortunately. But that’s going to open up pretty soon.

Frank Curzio: But it’s over 40 countries the platform supports, on tZERO. But it gives you a chance to buy an equity stake in our company. You don’t really have that opportunity a lot with publishers, which is cool, and you’re getting pretty much at the ground floor while we’re still a small company and we continue to grow.

Frank Curzio: Exciting times coming. Know that would be… None of that would exist without you. I just really, really appreciate all the support and what we’re doing here and what you guys believe in and stuff. I take that very, very seriously.

Frank Curzio: Again, questions, comments, I’m here for you. Email me anytime, frank@curzioresearch.com. And I’ll see you guys next week. Take care.

Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged is produced by Curzio Research, one of the most respected financial media companies in the industry. The information presented on Wall Street Unplugged is the opinion of its host and guest. You should not base your investment decisions solely on this broadcast. Remember, it’s your money and your responsibility.