Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street right to you on main street.

Frank Curzio: How’s it going out there? It’s July 21st. I’m Frank Curzio, host of the Wall Street Unplugged podcast, where I break down headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. I have a great interview set up for you right now. I sit it every Thursday, every interview’s great. This one’s with your buddy, your friend, most popular Andrew Horowitz, president and founder of Horowitz and Company. Incredibly smart analyst, great trader, and host to the longest running financial podcast only by a few months over someone that’s a really good looking and great, great guy, I forgot his name, but his podcast is called The Disciplined Investor. Andrew, how’s it going, buddy?

Andrew Horowitz: Hey, Frank, how are you?

Frank Curzio: I am doing good. I mean, I’m fired up, man. I’m starting to get a little bearish because I saw some statistics recently showing that it’s sentiment wise when you look at fund managers, this is from Bank of America, which I just saw, which was two days ago, saying that sentiments at all-time lows. You’re seeing cash balances at 12-year highs. We’re seeing a market that’s down tremendously and we know the risk, we know inflation, but when I see all time ever, right, it gets me excited from a contrarian point of view, but what do you think what’s going on? We’ve seen-

Andrew Horowitz: Wait, wait, wait. Let’s back up. Let’s just wait. Let’s just back up. You said when you started the discussion that you’re getting a little bearish, that’s what you said. Did you mean bullish?

Frank Curzio: Bullish? I’m starting to get bullish.

Andrew Horowitz: Okay.

Frank Curzio: Because everybody’s so-

Andrew Horowitz: If you had said bearish, well, no, you’re going through this whole scenario because this is a really good point though that you make, that when there’s everybody on one side of the boat, what happens? And literally, let’s think about a boat for a second, right? Where you have a boat in a situation where everybody says, oh my gosh, look at that over on the left side of the boat, or as we call it in the boating world, the port side. Everybody runs over to the port side and what happens? The boat starts leaning, right? Everybody starts leaning over, it starts leaning over. And everybody’s like, oh my God, oh my God, we’re going to sink. What does everybody do? Faster than before, they go to, as we call it the starboard side, and then the boat flips over. Where we are right now is in a very bear situation. You talk about the Bank of America poll that came out that talks about the positioning of retail and institutional, I think it was the lightest in since the layman debacle, right?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: And the most bearish that they’ve seen, I think on record. That’s really interesting. And what’s interesting to note about that is once everybody gets a hint and knowledge about everything that’s going on, the last person standing finally figures out, oh, things aren’t so good moving forward is often a time that it’s a turning point. And whether it’s that day, that month, that week is a different discussion, but there are some, as you’re probably saying due to your contrarian view on certain things, there’s some bargains out there.

Frank Curzio: There are some bargains out there. And here’s the report that I highlighted, and I know you could see this where we have it on our YouTube channel, but yeah, the Bank of America report came out two days ago, recession’s now consensus. Everybody believes it, but look at the other two times, March 2009, April 20, which we count in a recession, those times. Global growth optimism all-time low, worse than World War II, worse than, I mean, you go back how many markets?

Andrew Horowitz: It’s unbelievable.

Frank Curzio: I mean, global profit optimism, all-time low. Then, they had another chart here, which I thought was interesting, which is cash levels high since 2001. When I’m looking at things like that, look, and I don’t want to discount the risks, right, because we see the risks, but one thing that I do want to say is markets are terrible during uncertain times. The Fed is becoming more certain. I know we all have a negative view of the fed and what they did, and they relate to the party, but we know what they’re going to do going forward. I don’t think they’re going to be as aggressive, obviously. You’re seeing them calm down after the CPI, PPI with the 1% at 75 base point hike over the next two meetings. And that only took a week to dial down a little bit, but we’re seeing a lot of stuff to do in working in terms of commodity prices coming down. We’re finally seeing signs when we saw no signs, right?

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: You look at inventory levels up 30, 35% for Walmart and Target. M2 money supply, you see money come out of the market. And now, for them to want to double where we are now, 1.75 and double it over the next two months, I think is insane. But if we get anything dovish in September, which is a possibility because now, we’re really seeing these numbers hit. Like you said, there are a lot of bargains out there. There’s still risk out there, but man if you’re an investor not investing when things are down 30, 40%, then when are you going to invest?

Andrew Horowitz: Right. Frank, for those listeners out there that maybe haven’t necessarily studied eco back in the day when eco was actually a thing, right? Remember the days that we actually watched all the economy-

Frank Curzio: Of course.

Andrew Horowitz: And all that was going on because it mattered, versus just the economy that was like, okay, well what’s the Fed going to do? That’s a whole different discussion. But back when we were first learning about this, one of the things we did know was about monetary policy. Generally speaking, about the ebbs and flow, the velocity of money, the power of don’t fight the Fed, the idea that when an economy needs to be slowed down due to a variety of factors or sped up during a recession, there was a variety of things that can happen from a fiscal and a monetary side, right. Okay. But one of the things I think that we learned back then, and when I say back then I’m not talking about 1940, okay. I’m talking about in modern times, but when there was really an economic cycle that was being taught rather than just, hey, let’s just put all our money to work because stonks for the long run are going to be great. Ala Jeremy Siegel and our good pizza friend, why can I remember his name? One bite.

Frank Curzio: Cramer, bullish? Who are you talking about, bullish guys or…

Andrew Horowitz: Not Cramer? Not… Yeah, yeah. What’s his name, he was the gambler at Penn National. David, David…

Frank Curzio: I mean, Tom Lee’s bullish, right?

Andrew Horowitz: I know everybody on that. Well he’s crazy bull. Anyway, Dave Portnoy. That’s who I was thinking about.

Frank Curzio: Oh, okay, okay.

Andrew Horowitz: I don’t know where that… Obviously, my mind purposefully shut him down. Okay. Here’s the thing. And tell me what you think about this. It takes time for policy to make its way into the economy. Would you agree with that?

Frank Curzio: 100%, 100%. And that’s what… Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: And when I say time, Frank, we’re not talking about a week. We’re not talking about a month. We’re talking a move. It’s like moving the Titanic, moving economic policy from, let’s say, accommodative to restrictive, to taking money out of the markets. I have friends that are in the plumbing business, they’re busier than ever. Why is that? Well, they’re in the commercial business. They’re in the commercial business. Buildings that were being built are still being built, right?

Frank Curzio: Exactly.

Andrew Horowitz: All this stuff that happened last year is now coming into the economy now. Now that may mean that there is a slowdown coming in a year from now. Point though is why the hell does the Fed all of a sudden believe that they could rely on every economic print, and why is the market giving them the authority to believe this, that they can then move their interest rates dependent on one or two CPI prints, does that make any sense?

Frank Curzio: No, and it’s very dangerous. It’s a very dangerous precedent because-

Andrew Horowitz: I don’t get it.

Frank Curzio: No, I mean, from zero 1.75 is where we’ve gone since January. And we’re seeing the effects, especially over the past three, four months when we got really aggressive. Now, doubling of that. I mean, you want to see frozen. We can go down tremendously and I expect them to overshoot, and they are going to overshoot. If they go 50 and 50, I think they’re going to overshoot.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Frank Curzio: But you’re seeing this as evidence, but the real-time data of when you’re looking at copper, holy cow, I mean, 450 to 305.

Andrew Horowitz: 17 month low on copper. Yep. 17 month low.

Frank Curzio: Oil price, 130. Right. And they’re 100, still high. I’m not saying that they’re not high, but we got to-

Andrew Horowitz: Sure.

Frank Curzio: Talk about Fed policy and sentiment here because as this slows, and you’re looking at expectations for inflation are down very, very low, meaning that most people-

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: And even in the Bank of America study with these CEOs, they believe that those expectations and inflations coming down, which means interest rates are coming down, right. If you’re looking a year from now, and look at GDP, GDP is an ultimate factor where we’re looking at 3.7%. This is six months ago. And now, where are we? At 1.8 and-

Andrew Horowitz: 2.3.

Frank Curzio: I see 1.8 print now, 1.9 print.

Andrew Horowitz: Now there’s 1.8, in some of the, yeah, some of the pessimistic side, but I think IMF just came out last week with 2.4 dropped down from 2.6, 2.7, but they’re always slow anyway. Much more bullish.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. And then I’ve seen below 1% on 2023 and just taking, this is from, I think it was an article just put everything together. But again, you’ve seen them drastically come down, that’s the expectation. You have to be careful about overshooting, but you’re seeing clear signs of it. And you have to remember when you’re looking at this, and you’re reading the headlines, right, which you and I do. We read the headlines and tell you what’s BS and what’s not right. That’s our jobs and a podcast, it’s why people listen to it.

Andrew Horowitz: Well, just to restate that, Frank. We read more than the headlines. That’s the point to try to make, right? We don’t just read the headlines. You got to slow down sometimes, Frank, we don’t just read the headlines. We read the actual article and data behind the headlines. That’s where the power is, right. Not the headlines.

Frank Curzio: Even the articles are kind of BS too. I mean, they’re got to support the crazy headline sometimes, right? That’s kind of what I meant. But when we’re looking at that and we’re saying, okay, if you watch TV now, it’s ultra bearish. You have to remember, stocks are down tremendously. If the NASDAQ right here went up 15% off its lows, we’d still be down 20% from its all-time high. And that’s what you have to realize because for me, seeing ideas within the next two months are going to be crazy, just the last week has been crazy. What bank stocks were out favor when JP Morgan reported three days later, everyone wants banks and Citigroup and Goldman Sachs raising their dividend.

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: It’s CPI PPI released. How all… So the travel stocks got destroyed. Look at the airlines. All of a sudden, they’re back in favor. Wait a minute, we are seeing demand. Should Delta be trading at the same level as trading when 95% of their revenue is shut off-

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: Compared to now, when they just have record revenue and I know margins are tight and I know they’re having trouble hiring pilots, but should we be trading at those levels? That’s what happens when you’re seeing a total to leveraging where a lot of good names are coming out, which wasn’t long ago, Andrew, when we came in this podcast and I’d say, well, what do you like? And you’re like, I don’t like anything, which you were right. And that was about three months ago, maybe.

Andrew Horowitz: Mm-hmm.

Frank Curzio: Now at the beginning, you said well, there’s some bargains, I know you have proprietary formulas and data through your systems that show up. What are you seeing on your screens?

Andrew Horowitz: It’s interesting. Energy has come through the screens quite effectively over the last, I would say four or five months. Energy never comes through my screens ever, ever, ever. And I’m like, when you see something like that, if a bank ever came through, I’d be like, what’s up with that? Why is that happening? And energy started piling, and we dropped it down a little bit. Technology came down dramatically as well, but there are some areas I think that you have to really think about, wow, there is some opportunity, even if some of these stocks come 30% off the bottom, they’re still down 90% or 80% or something like that, right. Some names that if they’re going to be there. Now, I’m not talking Cathie Wood style, right, which is, yeah, I think we’re going to see a great boom ahead when her portfolio’s down 60, 70%. You need to come up 180% to get back to even.

Andrew Horowitz: That’s very difficult. But right now, what we’re talking about, Frank, in my opinion, is what’s happening in the world is that essentially first of all, we’re talking ourselves into a recession. I think that’s a big issue. I think that everybody is so afraid of this word and I don’t think, with all due respect, that a lot of people really understand what that means. Here’s the thing, Frank, I’m going to give you a job. Frank, you’re going to work for me. You’re working for me, Frank.

Frank Curzio: Awesome.

Andrew Horowitz: I’m going to pay you and you’re only working part-time, but I’m going to give you $10,000 that year to work for me, okay.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: And you’re happy as a clam. We have a really good year. I’ll give you an extra $5,000. That year you made $15,000. The following year, I’m going to go, Frank, you know what? We’re doing well, but that was a one off kind of weird… We got something that went on. It was unbelievable. In the next year, you make $11,000. You’re making 10% more than you did originally, right, 10% raise.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm, yep.

Andrew Horowitz: But you’re really down about 30 something percent from your peak from where you were, right?

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Because you made… Right.

Frank Curzio: Of course. Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: That’s exactly what’s going on with earnings, to a degree. What happened with earnings is this. That we saw that earnings got spiked for two different reasons, two major occurrences that happened. One, tax reduction. Big boost to bottom line, right, would you agree with that?

Frank Curzio: Absolutely. Huge, massive.

Andrew Horowitz: Massive. Second thing right on the heels of that, and by nobody’s design at all, is they got this huge influx of cash from balance sheet increase of the Fed and through monetary stimulus, through fiscal stimulus, this just tidal wave of money came in and was being spent on everything and anything. And listen, in a world where we can have an ape smoking a cigarette go for 17 million, there’s some excess money being spent, right? A cartoon that is. All of a sudden here we are, did anybody not think that, earnings probably not going to stand up as well. What we have is on the back end of this, just like the next year, you’re making good money. Your revenues are actually good, but your margins a little bit squeezed because of a couple different things, your earnings is still okay. They’re just back down a little bit from where that big, giant pop was maybe to last year’s numbers. Does that mean we need to reflect the pricing down 60% on your company?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: I don’t know. It seems a little bit insane to me. It seems we’re trying to now do a more of a linear calculation that the earnings are going to be down like this for the foreseeable future, which makes no sense at all. Now, we have two different animals that are involved in the markets now. We have the penguins and we have the ostriches. The ostriches are the everyday person that says, you know what? I just can’t look at my portfolio. I just can’t do it. I know things are down, I don’t want to look. You know what? I don’t want to see what’s happening. I bought all these stocks and I didn’t exactly know what I was doing. I’m not selling them because I don’t know exactly what I’m doing, but I just can’t look. Making a very, very big mistake because what they’re doing is they’re basically sentencing their portfolios to a lifetime of disaster, of doom and gloom if they have the wrong positions in there, right. Somebody that’s like, oh, Cathie was Ark, or I bought some of these other stocks.

Andrew Horowitz: I just let them just go down forever. One day, hopefully, they’ll come up.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: Really? Is that true? The second animal we have are penguins. Right now, after all this time, the penguins have appeared right at the edge of the beach, right on the edge of the iceberg. You know what happens? They all start lining up, right.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: And you and I are penguins, Frank. And I look at you and go, what do you think? And you say, I don’t know, what do you think? I say, I don’t know, looks a little cold, the water. We got Joe in the back going, hey, what are you guys doing up there? And then finally, Frank, you’re like, you know what? I’m going. You go, I’m like, Frank went, I’m going too. All these are the analysts right now that are now starting to drop price targets, right? They’re all starting to say that we’re getting go into a recession. They’re all following along with each other. Where were they six months ago? Was anybody dropping prices six months ago?

Frank Curzio: No.

Andrew Horowitz: Nobody. We got all this going on right now. We’re talking ourselves into a recession, we got people not looking, we got the penguins that are just jumping in and saying, yep, we’re going to be dropping prices down. And then we have the thing that happens with the banks. The most bizarre situation, they come out with their earnings, all over CNBC and all these other sites, bank earnings down 25, 30, 40%, right. But they don’t tell us exactly what those earnings would’ve been if they extracted out the set asides for bad loans, right?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: We have giant set asides that were put on during the pandemic that were released, pushed into earnings last year.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: Now, we’re increasing them again because people are concerned that banks are concerned that maybe, some soft times ahead, but they take those out of earnings. Now all of a sudden, we don’t get any comps from the powers that be on TV, this tells these horrible numbers.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: No wonder why stocks reacted so positively to the fact that things aren’t as bad as people think. And I think you’re going to see hit or miss. We’ll see what happens with some other names, but I think you’re going to see that there’s a lot of resiliency in some names, or better said, it’s not as bad right now as they’re making it out to be. That’s a long-winded yodel from me, sorry.

Frank Curzio: Listen, I hear you 100% because you’re seeing the taxes. I think it’s 2018, 19 when that came in, holy cow. I mean, remember AT&T was giving free checks to everybody and said, thank you very much.

Andrew Horowitz: $1,000 for you. $1,000 dollars for you.

Frank Curzio: Raising the dividends and whatever, right? Now, you-

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: Injected all this money, you push forward a lot of business, and now you’re seeing it come out of the markets, but this earning season’s going to be interesting. And for me, I’m getting bullish. I am, I’m bullish now, but I’m very careful where I know that companies may report like an IBM. And IBM’s numbers, I mean, it’s one of the top performing stocks of the year, right? It’s by DOW, and now-

Andrew Horowitz: It was up 3% until the earnings, Frank, this year.

Frank Curzio: Into the earnings. Yeah. Outside of energy, everything, right, to probably inform everything.

Andrew Horowitz: Mm-hmm.

Frank Curzio: But it came down after earnings and it was interesting what they said because you and I talk about this, which is funny because nobody mentions this when the dollar is weak, but the dollar is strong now and IBM operates in 170 countries, but going in, you’re going to see companies with a dollar stronger, especially over the last month or two. It’s going to hurt earnings for these multinationals, you’re going to see it come and they’re going to say the famous words that we like, or famous word, X currency, that’s one word. X currency. X currency-

Andrew Horowitz: Or constant curse. Okay. Yeah. We made all great money.

Frank Curzio: Which is great, but also this is the opportunity when your stock is down and for CEOs to issue cautious guidance, because it is. The supply chains are starting to open up based on a data I see for the first time in a very, very long time. I know a lot of companies were lying out their teeth for two years. It was opening up, it’s not, I get great data on this for people who track for 25 years, you’re actually seeing the ports open up because demand’s starting to settle a little bit. It’s getting easy to produce things and ship them.

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: It’s going to be interesting to see what these CEOs say because you got to offer cautious guidance, you might see a lot of IBMs and JP Morgans, Jamie Dimon, kind of very cautious, but that’s going to be an opportunity. I mean, you don’t want to buy ahead of that and be down 10% in a day, but there’s a lot of names trading at discounts-

Andrew Horowitz: Sure.

Frank Curzio: In basement prices, where insiders are buying right now, you still see their growth intact. They’re going to go earnings maybe a little bit slower at eight to 10%. But for me, there’s more names popping up on my list where small caps are the cheapest that they’ve ever been. I haven’t seen a cheaper time.

Andrew Horowitz: On a relative basis, right? On a relative basis or are you talking about on absolute?

Frank Curzio: Well, no. Basically if you’re looking at growth, if you’re looking at growth, even from a PE perspective that want to list at all times. When you’re looking at growth, which has been discounted significantly. And remember, these guys don’t have to worry about a stronger dollar, it’s actually better for them, most of the small capstone business in the US-

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: Compared to the multinationals and SMP. When I see valuation out of every company, but there’s a lot of companies that I’m looking 12, 18 months from now that, I mean, if you’re buying a lot of names, they’re probably going to be a lot higher from that because I can’t say the Fed is staying this road, continue to raise rates. I think September, they raise and they’re going to say, okay, we’re going to wait. And that’s going to be a big boost to the markets. In the meantime, this two months is going to be like it was the past week. All over the place.

Andrew Horowitz: And by the way, they cannot afford to say anything other than they’re going to continue with their program until they change. If they even hint that they’re going to slow down in the future, okay, we’re going to raise now, but September, we’re going to halt. No good. To the very last second, they have to continue on with their conversation, with their, as I say, their leather boot to the throat of the markets saying, you know what? We are going to raise because otherwise you get the wrong impression what’s going on. But I think you’re right, I don’t think there’s any CEO that’s worth their weight in salt that would take this opportunity to be very bullish. There’s just no reason to be, there’s just none, right? You can hide behind all sorts of crap.

Andrew Horowitz: You could list, well, we got the war, we got the close down of this in Russia, we got the higher cost of items and materials and we got the supply chain from China and the COVID issue. The list goes on and on and on. Pick any two, right? One from column A, one from column B. And if that doesn’t work, throw something in about the weather. That would be what they should be doing this quarter, as crazy as that sounds, because there’s no reason to bring up the speculative optimism with investors only to have something wrong down the road. They’d rather be under promised and over deliver, right? Isn’t that the whole point?

Frank Curzio: That’s the point. And look, your estimates have come down. I mean, you look at Tesla, where they said supply chain concerns and Shanghai and lockdowns in Shanghai. I mean, their number was 1.83 in April. That number for the quarter was supposed to be $2.31. It’s down to $1.83. I mean, just to put that in perspective, even at that number at 1.83, it’d be a 43% decline from last quarters $3.22. If you’re not beating those expectations, I’d be surprised, but expectations are down and people are expecting misses. This is a time to be conservative where you’re not have these high expectations where you have to be overly optimistic sometimes and that’s what gets these CEOs in trouble, but now is that time, and you may see your stock forward a little bit, give you a little bit more of a discount. I’m not saying that we’re at the absolute bottom, I’m just saying 18 months from now at these levels, where we’re seeing so many names traded, these valuations-

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: It’s just attractive, especially as everyone’s leaning towards one side, when they see all-time this, all-time that, the contrarian majors-

Andrew Horowitz: No good, right?

Frank Curzio: Are going to be like, holy cow.

Andrew Horowitz: Right. All the time, every time you see all-time, all time lumber prices are only going to go up and they just shot down 50%. By the way, Frank, one of the things that we’re doing, we’ve leaned on the value side in our global allocation. We have this global allocation, which is a much more traditional style of investing, right? We use mutual funds, ETFs, we balance it out depending on the risk of a client. And let’s say that we have a moderate risk client, I’m just making this easy. And we decide, you know what, hey, let’s look at the world where we are. Let’s look at valuations, let’s look at the balance. Let’s look at how these things will work together, the correlations, et cetera. And we say again, short circuiting this to get to the point, oh, you know what? Right now, value is a better proposition than growth. The large cap value, we want to put about a 70% versus 30% of growth in the portfolio right now. That has done wonders for our risk this year, right?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: Very recently, we start to push a little bit back towards growth. That 70/30 is now going to be about 60/40. And still leading on value, but bringing it a lot closer because there is still a 14% differential on a ratio base, just roll return of growth versus value up and down the range from large cap to small cap. That’s a pretty big number. And if in fact, we see the Fed that just slows down a little bit, if in fact we see that the world does start getting a little bit more into a recessionary period, if in fact we do see that dollar coming off of those ridiculous levels, all time low against yen, I believe right? 1.37. Isn’t it?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: In parody, which by the way, do you spell parody with O-D-Y or I-T-Y when it comes to the-

Frank Curzio: I-T-Y I do.

Andrew Horowitz: I’m just wondering. Yeah. Well, I think it’s parody anyway, but yeah. I think it’s both.

Frank Curzio: It could be.

Andrew Horowitz: What you have right there is, again, I agree with you, a recipe for, if nothing else, a reversion to the mean trade of nothing else, right?

Frank Curzio: Yes.

Andrew Horowitz: Just getting back to a little bit more of a realistic level comparative wise. I agree with you.

Frank Curzio: And I’m going to share this with the audience end with you as well, which I think I’m going to start looking at, I started looking at it briefly, but start looking at companies that IPOed in the past 18 months. And here’s why. They’re down enormously because they pitch this great idea, the next generation and not Virgin Galactic and the whole world’s, we’re going to go into space, right? We’re going to space, everybody’s going to space, right? And then the stock got crushed and everybody got out in shamatin and stuff. We know that, but when you’re looking at these companies down 80% plus, they raise, excuse my language, a shit load of money, right? Which they have on their balance sheet now.

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: They were trading at 20, 30, 40 times sales, which is ridiculous. Now, they’re trading at five times sales. They still have their growth model intact, but yet the valuation has come down to the point where the amount of cash that they have to spend, some of them are going to get attractive down 80%. I know it’s hard to see that.

Andrew Horowitz: And they’re cutting expenses.

Frank Curzio: Yes.

Andrew Horowitz: Cutting expenses. I could tell you private companies and all sorts of companies, they’re just laying off people left and right.

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: That is a big, big part of their overall expenditures. They don’t need all those people. All these players are like, hey, we have a great app. Why deal with all these individuals and all that? Meanwhile, they just loaded up with employees for no reason. They wanted to manage 1,000 employees. What are you talking about? And why do we have to have people constantly coding all the time? Can’t we get to a point that things are set a little bit with your product and the things that’s going to benefit? I agree with you. I think there is some great opportunities. I mean, people were laughing when I was looking at DocuSign recently, but on the bottom, right, towards the bottom of this, I think still a little bit of an older company, but there’s still a very sticky factor that yes, real estate transactions are going to slow down dramatically over the next several months with interest rates as high as they are.

Andrew Horowitz: And that would mean that DocuSign, questionable, but you know what, still for other areas where you have it, that doesn’t mean necessarily you’re going to drop it. Smaller companies are going to probably keep it, there’s a free version for a few things, of course, just for reading, but I got to tell you something, once you get into that lobster trap of utilizing a product like a Salesforce or a DocuSign or a RingCentral, there’s no getting out of it. You just can’t get out of it.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. It is hard to get out of it, but when I’m looking, not just that area too, and one thing, I know you could attest to this is when we see markets like this, just total destruction and everything down across the board. We’ve seen this, we’ve seen this playbook. And what happens is you have the survivors and the survivors are the ones with… At balance sheets that could buy a lot of these names.

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: And you’re even seeing that in crypto where crypto, it’s so great what’s happening because it’s so much bullshit in it, but you know what? Look what’s happened. Some of these things have 40, 50% in the past 14 days, the Avalanches, Ethereum’s, the Solana’s. I mean, these are good names that got wrecked along, and I would say 10% of cryptos are real, but even when you’re looking at a lot of these companies that came out crazy valuations, the ones who are able to survive are huge. We’ve seen that with Amazon, we see that with Microsoft, we see that with Google.

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: You go through these periods where everything gets wrecked and they don’t know what to cut. I mean, there’s a reason why bank, not even bank balance sheets, but you’re looking at tech companies, their balance sheets are so strong because those companies that live through that, dot com, and survive.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: I mean, some of them won a-

Andrew Horowitz: Never again.

Frank Curzio: Weeks, months away, great companies. And they were like never, ever again and-

Andrew Horowitz: Never again.

Frank Curzio: They know that it’s cyclical. I mean, it’s secular into the economy, does what it’s doing right now, right. Then you realize a lot of things are cyclical sometimes, even technology could be a little bit, but it gives you periods that you could really… And you should be that way with an investor. I mean, if you have stops on your investments, which we do it a lot, and we stopped out and everybody’s got to get in the hit here, but you have money in the sidelines where things are down 40%, something’s down 70% that are good names. It’s a good opportunity to start getting in because when the Fed reverses where the Fed just hints at, hey, you know what, we’re seeing everything come down, we’re just going to wait. Even if they say, we’re going to wait and see before we go forward anymore, rate hikes, after September, that’s when I think you could really see this market take off, but it all depends on the data and you got to be willing to change in a second because we could see inflation really… Copper, go back up, oil go back up and gas prices-

Andrew Horowitz: Sure.

Frank Curzio: Go back up. We got to pay attention, right.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. Can I can mention something, something that tags off of what you just talked about, a really good lesson for people that are investing. You could take this for trading as well, those traders out there, but I’m talking about investors. A lot of times we have the idea that, hey, we got a stock and it went against us. And I really liked the stock for a long period of time, and it went against us and damn, I got stomped out. Man, I’m never going near that again, right. The Jonesing on a stock.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: And that’s the worst thing you could probably do because stocks don’t care about you, the prices don’t care about you. You made a mistake on entry, that’s all. You may be totally right about the name itself in terms of their outlook and their future. Never just give up on something. Now on the second thing, never try to just get back at a stock either, right? Oh, I’m going to get back on that one. That one ruined my day. I lost all sorts of money, I’m going to get back by doubling up. No, that’s not what we do. But what we do is we keep an open mind to where we are putting on money and allocating to the best possible place where we can find opportunity, risk adjusted opportunity, right?

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: And if that stock or that ETF or that investment of any sort still makes that criteria today, and maybe albeit at a lower price, or maybe it’s a little bit higher price than you sold it. I don’t care. It’s not about what happened, it’s what’s going to happen. That’s what we need to look at, just to put a lesson on that.

Frank Curzio: And risk adjusted is very important. People don’t realize. When you see interest rates a zero and you’re flooding the market with trillions in cash, yeah, you want to get aggressive, you want to borrow more, that makes a lot of sense. But markets like this where people always say cash is the worst investment when inflation going through the roof, cash is terrible. Tell that to the guy who’s betting cash since January, and see if he’s pissed off compared to you who’s been invested in stocks. Sometimes cash is the best investment.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. Let me get this straight. I have cash, 100,000 in cash. And inflation’s that, let’s say it’s the end of the year now, let’s fast forward. And I’m down 8% because of inflation, but not really, but yes, okay.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: I can buy 8% less. Meanwhile, you have these stocks, you’re down 15% on them, but aren’t you down 15% plus the seven?

Frank Curzio: Pretty much, yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Are you down 22?

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: What am I missing here? What am I missing?

Frank Curzio: All right. Now the fun part. Yes, absolutely. I want to get to some of the ideas, sectors, things that you’re looking at right now, which you always share ideas. Only one time since, we’ve been doing these for over 10 years now-

Andrew Horowitz: Ever.

Frank Curzio: That you said, I’m not recommending anything right now, and that was three, four months ago. What about now? I know there’s things opening up right now.

Andrew Horowitz: The US dollar I find is an interesting situation right now. We talk about how high it’s gone, everybody’s concerned about it going over to the other side. We’re seeing magazine cover pages on the almighty dollar and it’s going to be a new world with the dollar and all that. And I’m starting to think that maybe we’re getting a little bit overextended, just a bit with the dollar. There’s a few things that are interesting in that area. You look at, for example, oil and oil services, continuing to see real opportunities we talked about earlier. It’s things like, without getting too specific because there can be a lot of different investments, right? There’s an area of investing, whether it’s in the services, whether it’s in the actual drilling, whether it’s in the distribution, but XLE, for example, holds some of the majors at the top of that reign. XLE is an oil and oil services ETF that holds all of them. That’s kind of will follow along to a degree of where oil’s going. The other thing is biotech. Now, I think you were talking about biotech a few weeks ago. Don’t I-

Frank Curzio: Biotech’s amazing.

Andrew Horowitz: Remember you…

Frank Curzio: I mean, look, there’s a shot.

Andrew Horowitz: Great.

Frank Curzio: Oh man. I’ve never seen an industry so destroyed. If I had to say this, it’s got to be a record, because it was a record for the most… I think it was eight or 9% of companies in a Russell with trading at cash value, which was a record. And that was a couple of weeks ago. I would say it’s got to be a record on companies trading near cash or at cash in biotech.

Andrew Horowitz: Well it’s because nobody-

Frank Curzio: Annihilate-

Andrew Horowitz: Gets sick anymore. It’s only COVID, you only get COVID. It’s the only thing you possibly can get is… And monkeypox. COVID and monkeypox, the only two things you can get.

Frank Curzio: I mean, biotech, if you’re looking, and I’m not talking about buying a biotech and you can, I think it’s worth it. We’re buying, hey, we’re placing all emphasis on this one drug, it’s in phase one, got phase two results coming out. I think about companies in biotech that are making millions, tens of million, hundreds of million dollars in sales that are down 60, 70, 80% from their highs.

Andrew Horowitz: I know. Crazy.

Frank Curzio: Still generating that revenue, not seeing a massive decline because healthcare and inflation through the roof that you’re not seeing. Again, when the government pays for a lot of this stuff, you don’t see slowdowns. For me, when I look at some of these biotech names, right, it’s a no brainer. And what do we see? Some of the covers that sector a lot is a lot of the big names were leveraged out the ass. I have to say it like that so you’re paying attention. Leveraged as you have no idea, guys that have 12, 15, $20 billion funds. And a lot of that has come out to the point where they had to sell, was forced selling, but out of all the industries from a risk adjusted standpoint, I mean, you could make a lot of money investing in biotech stocks and-

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: I mean, that has been annihilated, annihilated.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. One of the ones I have that I’ve actually put one on a client’s portfolios, and again, some of this is mixed into our growth side on the small cap in particular, but some specific names for example, are involved in the CRISPR area, which is a lesser known area. It’s still not proven entirely. I’m hearing some really good things about this area from a variety of places, by the way. They’re getting closer and closer-

Frank Curzio: Been on this area for a long time. You’ve been familiar with this-

Andrew Horowitz: What’s that?

Frank Curzio: In your research… You’ve been on this area for a very long time, but before COVID and stuff.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. I’m back and forth. I owned CRISPR for a long time personally, by the way. And then, I think I tripled my money or doubled my money on it, or it was close to triple probably, then took most of it out, started coming down a little bit left, kind of came down on me a bit, moved out of it and then entered back on some ridiculously low levels on that. Recently, there’s a couple different companies in this area, probably three or four, but two of them I like, one’s called CRISPR, just CRSP is the symbol. The multi one is Editas, the symbols E-D-I-T. Recently bought that for client portfolios on a little bit of a pullback, and I think we’re up 25% in the last couple weeks on that already. That moves around a lot. But both of these have opportunity, and if there is somehow the potential for them to come up with a solution to deal with some genetic, and particularly when it’s in vitro you deal with some of this stuff. I mean, that’s some power of sniping one strand of your DNA, changing this chromosome and replacing it and reprogramming. That’s pretty cool stuff. That’s pretty cool stuff.

Frank Curzio: And that technology is further along than most people believe.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: I mean, this is something that we talk about 15 years ago, 10 years, it’s been better and better. But again, when we got COVID and then yeah, just funding issues. And now, we see what’s going on right now in inflation and money just falling out of the market, but man, I mean, biotech has been absolutely annihilated. Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up-

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: Because people don’t talk about biotech. It’s been worse than some of the IPOs and some of the crazy meme stocks down 80% plus.

Andrew Horowitz: I got two other biotech long shots, totally going to be-

Frank Curzio: Love it.

Andrew Horowitz: Dependent on monkeypox, which we can scoff out if you want. I don’t care. But you know what, I think if you think of the mindset of governments in the face of what happened in their total failure during COVID, right. To do anything of a reasonable length of time or even to get the mast right or not right or the containment or the lockdown, everything was just botched from start to finish, right. We don’t know still to this day, if the lockdowns help or not, China’s still doing it. I don’t understand by the way, Frank, how China’s ever going to open up again, ever if they continue with this policy.

Frank Curzio: They have to though, they have to or they’re going to fall so far behind.

Andrew Horowitz: How? If they have COVID, their policy is-

Frank Curzio: They make big mistakes staying closed. Big mistakes.

Andrew Horowitz: They can’t do it.

Frank Curzio: I mean, people are moving their supply chains, which is their bread and butter and that’s what it’s coming down to. They better open up because statistics show from almost every single country that come on, enough. We know the people need to be protected with COVID, the vaccines are out there. If you got boosters, you’re okay. Most people again, when I went on airplanes, the people that you hear that have COVID now, it’s a cold, maybe something a little bit worse for some people, not discounting it, but you shouldn’t be closing down the entire world right now. We know that was the dumbest thing. It’ll mark one of the dumbest policy moves we’ve ever made in US history when they start writing about it.

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: And that’s what led all inflation and money flowing and that’s another story, but yeah, China will get it right because they have to. Unless they want to destroy their economy, they have to.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. During COVID, by the way, I had a situation, I don’t know if you know this, that during the whole thing, I had a slight case, but the worst thing that happened to me during that time was like a gout, because the first thing I did when I heard that everything was being shut down is I ordered about eight cases of potato chips, not kidding either, in my office, okay. The second thing we did is we stocked up on all sorts of meat, bought some smokers and we were smoking meat for days on end, weeks on end, eating it in the office. And one day I’m like, what’s going on with that toe of mine? That doesn’t feel right. Turns out I had gout from all that terrible eating.

Frank Curzio: What’s your Twitter handle?

Andrew Horowitz: My Twitter or my Instagram? Twitter is @andrewhorowitz.

Frank Curzio: @andrewhorowitz because I know you post… Forget about listening to Andrew about investments. This is much more entertaining on Twitter where you post all the stuff you smoke. It’s great, yeah. And I’m like-

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. That’s over on…

Frank Curzio: Dude, why do you send me that stuff?

Andrew Horowitz: Go look at dadbodfoodblog on Instagram. Dadbodfoodblog. You got the dad bod, dad bod, and food blog. My kids made that up for me. I post a lot of stuff that I do when I eat. The other thing is, so there’s two companies in that area. There’s a few different companies, but one is S-I-G-A, SIGA Therapeutic Earth… SIGA, what’s the… Technologies. And they make a monkey… Oh, well, actually these are smallpox, which are being utilized for monkeypox. There’s a company out in Europe that does most of the vaccines, but these are being bought by other places to make sure that in the event of, there’s also EBS, which is another company. Let’s just skip on from there. The other thing I want to talk about is I was thinking about what’s up with Ford? The biggest problem I see with Ford, and I’ve always really not loved them.

Andrew Horowitz: Although I do own them, I haven’t owned them for very long, but I have this latest just blowout of the shares. I said, oh my gosh. Looking at the company, ratios look relatively good. The biggest problem I have with them, of course, their legacy costs. And that’s the big leg up that Tesla has on them, on all these companies is they don’t have any legacy costs, Tesla, right? They have more people on the payroll of for that don’t work than are on the payroll that do work, right, from all the retirees and all the pension plans.

Frank Curzio: It’s not even static.

Andrew Horowitz: But if you look at it-

Frank Curzio: Yeah, they’ve taken on a lot of debt. And I think, listen-

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: The uncertainty and the transparency where you had the CEO that was lying out his teeth about supply chain issues, and we figured them out a year ago. And 18 months ago, which was again, he’s just lying out of his teeth. He knew it, he sees the data-

Andrew Horowitz: And the EVs, oh, we have EVs right around the corner. And we’re doing this. Yeah.

Frank Curzio: Do you notice that what they just came out with is a new version of their F-150, right. I don’t know if you saw it, more horsepower, it’s beautiful, right? But it’s gas guzzling, right, because now they’re realizing, holy cow, we can’t shut off the engine that generates all this money when we can’t massively-

Andrew Horowitz: Sure.

Frank Curzio: I mean, how many cars have Ford produce EVs? I want to say four, 5,000, I think and they all got recalled already. Don’t discount that where Tesla’s still, I don’t want to say light years, but if you really look at the factory, you could do this, there’s a YouTube video where you see it. And they have these drones where you see how their factories run and the machines that build the machines in terms of Tesla compared to everybody else. It’s-

Andrew Horowitz: Amazing.

Frank Curzio: Night and day. And not only that, when you see Ford four years ago, we’re going to spend eight billion to build this plant, new technology. Now it’s 12 billion. I think it’s up to 30, 35, 40 billion, whatever it’s up to, because-

Andrew Horowitz: It doesn’t stop. It’s always more.

Frank Curzio: They have to get the technology in place. With that said, I was saying this a lot in the 20s or 15, now it’s 12. It is off its lows of 11 over the last month and nice gain here at 10, 15%, but they have to figure it out, they have to figure out how to scale, how to get more EVs out there because they’re coming out when everyone else is going to come out. We’ve heard the competition and Tesla’s in trouble for how long, for three years, and no one’s really coming out. In California, you start to see a few here and there. Not so much every place else, but they have to start getting these vehicles out and you have to be repaired because the first generation of these EVs, it’s not going to be pretty. It wasn’t pretty for Tesla, you’re going to see recalls.

Andrew Horowitz: Yep.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. It’s a whole new different business model with these companies.

Andrew Horowitz: Here’s what I want, Frank.

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: I want the F-850, okay. What I want this to be is fully electric with maybe a little generator on there. Actually, I’d like a generator that is going to be charging the EV in the event it would go too long. It’s probably going to be a very heavy car. It can pull all sorts of stuff. I want it also to be enough power to power my house as a backup generator, not kidding. In the event that we have a storm for an extended period of time that has the generator built in… Or if I go somewhere, I can camp out and have full electricity. Now, why don’t we have something like that? Explain to me where we don’t have any kind of reverse ability to plug, I don’t know, something into a car and utilize it. Does that make any sense to you?

Frank Curzio: I think it does.

Andrew Horowitz: How much-

Frank Curzio: That’s where we’re going to go.

Andrew Horowitz: Things it can plug into.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. Look, what I do know about affordable is when you look at Tesla, the supercharging stations and things like that are huge, and they say that’s a big drawback. That’s the number one reason, I think they just took surveys of why people will switch to EVs is, we don’t know how we’re going to charge it. And it’s a learning curve there.

Andrew Horowitz: I agree with that. That sucks.

Frank Curzio: Everyone assumes that everybody’s going to buy this. But you know what? I have experience with this for a long time being right, being wrong in different trends and stuff like that following for over three decades. If you make something easier and cheaper, it works. EVs are not really-

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: That much cheaper. And it’s definitely not easier than going to your gas station.

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: You’re basically forcing people to do something that’s going to require more time and people hate that. You want proof? Do a sales funnel where they have to go through one or two extra pages and you lose them, right.

Andrew Horowitz: Right.

Frank Curzio: That’s how quick they lose attention spans. It’s going to be interesting. I’ve seen some EVs at test shows. Some EVs are absolutely amazing. I’m hoping Ford gets it right, it’ll be pretty cool. They do have a nice lineup of cars coming out, but let’s-

Andrew Horowitz: But you know what the one advantage is, right, of EVs?

Frank Curzio: What?

Andrew Horowitz: You could smoke while you’re filling up your car. And I got to tell you something, all these people that are so absolute environmentally conscious, do you know how many people I see smoking while they’re filling up their EVs at the supercharge stations? I’m like-

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Is that good for the environment? I don’t think so.

Frank Curzio: I mean, I think it’s great. I mean, climate change fine, climate change. I was in Las Vegas at a conference for Metaverse recently and you see the difference in people over there, but I just think it’s funny where our administration, no coal, no nothing, we got to worry about the environment. No oil, stop producing oil, but yet, you’ll go someplace else like that oil doesn’t affect the environment. Let’s see if the science-

Andrew Horowitz: Frank, your other guests don’t interrupt you and they don’t call you out. Am I right? The other guests are patient, they’re polite, but you know what? Now you say something that bothers me.

Frank Curzio: What?

Andrew Horowitz: Can I call you out on this, please?

Frank Curzio: Go ahead.

Andrew Horowitz: Frank goes physically to Vegas to go to a Metaverse conference.

Frank Curzio: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Horowitz: That is just an oxymoron dude. How does that work? I don’t understand. Isn’t the whole point of the Metaverse so you don’t have to schlep to Vegas? You just put on some goggles and you’re like, hey, what’s up, Charlie? What’s up, Frank? What’s up, Sarah?

Frank Curzio: Yeah. We’re almost there. We’re pretty close, but that is funny. But I could tell you the ideas… You know what, really quick this story because I remember Matt Damon, who’s liberal, and I like him as an actor, he’s a great actor. And he did this movie on oil, not the one, a recent one-

Andrew Horowitz: The one where it blew up? The one where it blew up and-

Frank Curzio: This was a recent movie. It’s not the one where the environmental, whatever, this is a different one. Anyway, he went there and he said he was talking to these people and he got it. He was just like, these people are passionate about oil. And I know the liberal, they got on him a little bit, but when I went to Vegas and saw a lot of the projects that people want to do to Metaverse and how it’s going to impact climate change and how much they believe in it, it was remarkable. For me-

Andrew Horowitz: Still water. Still water?

Frank Curzio: I think that might have been it. I think that might have been it.

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah.

Frank Curzio: But then you hear the media just pushes it out where you either have to not believe in climate change at all or you got to 100, the whole world needs to change right now, no oil, fossil fuels immediately. That’s such a huge middle there, but just to see the passion behind it and a lot of these projects that they’re building within the Metaverse and it was pretty cool. It was all giving back and different climate change-

Andrew Horowitz: Frank, look what a great job they did. What a great job they did at changing your vocabulary from what we had, which was global warming to climate change-

Frank Curzio: Climate change, yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Which is the standard thing that we say.

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: And they did it in such a way so that no matter what, they can’t be wrong.

Frank Curzio: But-

Andrew Horowitz: If we have too much heat, it’s climate change. If it gets cold and we have a massive snow, climate change.

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Winds, climate change, right?

Frank Curzio: You got to go back to global warming though because there’s this record heat everywhere.

Andrew Horowitz: Now they well, oh, the streets are melting and buckling in Italy.

Frank Curzio: Just crazy.

Andrew Horowitz: That’s the problem. Listen, I agree something’s not right. Well, let’s agree that something’s not right.

Frank Curzio: Yes.

Andrew Horowitz: Can we agree with that?

Frank Curzio: Just skip the facts. When you have, and this is serious, 15,000 scientists say that there’s no climate change and another, what was it, 20,000 say there is, there’s something wrong with there. I mean, I can see there’s a few outliers.

Andrew Horowitz: You can’t have climate change. Here’s the problem. It’s just like the Fed. They can’t make decisions based on one or two different monthly, or even a quarter’s worth of data. The fact is, we’re talking about billions of years that things have changed over time. We can’t look at the last 20 years and assume anything. You can’t make any calculation. I’m not even saying that climate change is wrong, it is very possible, maybe we are going through some climate change. But if, by the way, if in fact we are really going through a climate change that is going to heat us up over the next number of years, we’re in deep do-do, right-

Frank Curzio: Yeah.

Andrew Horowitz: Because that’s a fast move. That’s the end of a curve that’s going to go parabolic and basically, you’re going to be melting your sneakers onto the sidewalk.

Frank Curzio: Yeah. I know. I mean, I could imagine emails now that this turn to climate change. Anyway, listen, you gave us a lot of names.

Andrew Horowitz: Email Frank.

Frank Curzio: Yes, frank@curzioresearch.com. Feel free to send them to me. I’m here, yell at me if it makes you feel better, get all the anger out. I’m here for you. I love you guys. It doesn’t matter. Someone wants to get in touch with you, learn more about you, Andrew, how can they do that?

Andrew Horowitz: Go over to thedisciplinedinvestor.com. Listen to me on The Disciplined Investor podcast, you can find that on every app podcast for pository anywhere that you want to find it from Amazon to Apple and all that. You could get my audio book, which has been around for years, The Disciplined Investor over on Audible. And every Tuesday, we do a live show with John C. Devark, myself called DH Unplugged, where we deconstruct and go through all the news in a much lighter way, kind of learning a lot more, play some games and do some great giveaways. DH Unplugged. There you go.

Frank Curzio: All right. Sounds great. Listen, as always, thanks so much for coming on, man. I love you. Yeah. Anything you need from me, let me know, but really great podcast. I appreciate sharing ideas. And-

Andrew Horowitz: Yeah. I think people should wonder why they’re not seeing you and it’s the black eye, right? Someone gave you a black eye, is that why you’re not… Where’s the video?

Frank Curzio: And knocked out my teeth. Yeah. Black eye and knocked out my teeth.

Andrew Horowitz: I would write Frank and ask him to show a picture of what’s going on.

Frank Curzio: Great stuff. Definitely. Thanks for coming out, buddy.

Andrew Horowitz: All right. See you, Frank.

Frank Curzio: All right. Take care. All right, guys. As always, great stuff from Andrew. If you watch it on YouTube, the video, just with the questions, we had a little technical difficulties there, but you saw Andrew’s beautiful face the whole entire time, which was cool. Just love having him on because we can go anywhere and you can’t do that with all guests, right? These guests have specialized, whatever. If it’s crypto, if it’s small caps, large caps, whatever. Going from the economy to Bitcoin, to sometimes politics and how that impacts stocks and investing in your allocation and stuff like that. Andrew’s been a good friend for a long time. You guys know that you, guys say he’s one of your favorite guests that I have on. And the best part is, he always shares ideas other than three months ago, which is actually a good call.

Frank Curzio: First time that I’ve interviewed him over 10 years, I think, that he didn’t share a pick, which is again, was very, very good, but he shared a lot of picks… And biotech, guys, is really, really an industry you need to look at. We’ve recommended several biotech stocks recently in our newsletter. I mean, no one’s really talking about how terrible this market has gotten hit. We hear about the beam stocks, we hear about Bitcoin and crypto and all these things down 78%. And biotech is right there. One of the hardest hit sectors, doesn’t deserve to be, a lot of these companies, even great companies have gotten nailed at generating revenue. It’s a good place to look for new ideas and Andrew shared lots of them, so great stuff, appreciate him coming on. As always, I say this podcast is about you, not about me. Let me know what you thought, frank@curzioresearch.com. That’s frank@curzioresearch.com, and that’s it for me. Questions and comments, I’m here for you, it’s the same email. Really appreciate all the support, and have a good weekend, guys. I’ll see you next week. Take care.

Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged is produced by Curzio Research, one of the most respected financial media companies in the industry. The information presented on Wall Street Unplugged is the opinion of its host and guests. You should not base your investment decision solely on this broadcast. Remember, it’s your money and your responsibility.